Episode 36: Self-Confidence in Leadership with Erin Petersen, Part Two

00;00;09;01 – 00;03;08;01
Kelly Parbs
According to recent research, 69% of employees say they would work harder if they felt their efforts were better recognized. 79% of people who leave their job say they didn’t feel appreciated. 50% of employees have cited bad leadership and management as their main reason for leaving a job. Another study indicates that only 11% of companies believe they have strong leadership. As someone who has worked with organizations, employees, and leaders for my whole career, it’s clear to me that healthy, effective leadership makes all the difference. This got me thinking – what are the qualities of a strong, effective leader? I’m your host, Kelly Parbs. I’m a licensed clinical social worker with Empathia. Today, I will be talking with Erin Petersen. Erin is an accomplished individual with experience in many areas of management. She has a master’s degree in social work and has provided professional coaching and education to countless leaders, helping them assess and improve their leadership skills. She has a special passion for helping people boost their self-confidence, and has found that leaders who have high self-confidence are the most effective in their roles. I appreciate you talking about like, upbringing and past experiences. And of course, we all come from extremely different places, and if there’s someone who’s wanting to build their leadership skills, I think you’re absolutely right in recommending that they take a look at, you know, was I raise in an environment that built my self-confidence? And if not, if that’s something that’s lacking for me, it does not mean that moving forward, I can’t be a good leader! It just might mean that I have to work a little more hard than another person who was maybe more blessed with those experiences that built their self-esteem. But that’s not to say it can’t be done. Just a little more work may have to go into it. You may have to know what your resources are. And I appreciate you sharing some of the things that you do to kind of reset and build your self-confidence. And that’s another thing I just wanted to talk about, is how can leaders build their self-confidence? Especially if they don’t come from a space where, you know, they were raised that way? One of the things that you mentioned was mindfulness, you know, taking time, stopping, and being- being mindful. Do you have any other recommendations for someone in terms of how they might build their self-confidence?

00;03;08;04 – 00;06;01;21
Erin Petersen
I think as leaders, there is always room for empathy. You can’t overdo it. I think sometimes that if people that are too over-empathetic, it kind of crosses that professional. And this is just from experience, right? but I think understanding what empathy is, understanding what like that- active listening, and actually holding space for individuals? That’s huge to me. I think that it also is, making sure that that you’re keeping yourself in check. That’s not an- that’s- trust me, that’s never a- it’s not an easy process on a daily basis. There’s always good days and there’s always bad days. But I think that the empathy building is, is huge because it allows you to understand that people are also going through other things, and that I may not always have all the answers to what everybody needs. And I’ve learned to be more self-aware? I think the pandemic taught me that because I think even looking in the mirror, and the sounds so silly, but I would go, I remember going into the bathroom on a daily basis and looking in the mirror and making sure my face didn’t look scared, even though I was scared to death as to like, okay, so this has changed 15 more times, or the news has said that we can’t do this. And like, you know, I’ve got a child that’s learning from home and I’m working from home. None of us have done this. And then we have- but then I also ran an organization where we were on boots on the ground and it was health care. So we were at the forefront of all of it. And there was no stopping! There was no closing. Even though we did some work from home, so I guess is trying to understand that, like we were all going through something pretty scary and then making sure that like that social skills piece in my- in my toolbox was open because I had to learn to be- to be kind of okay with what was happening, even though on the inside it was like, I have no idea what we’re doing here! I don’t think anybody did, right? We were all learning that. So there was moments of that time to make sure that I was- that self-reflection is huge. I think self-regulation is huge. Especially to build your confidence up, is that you kind of become your own, cheerleader. Right? Absolutely! You have to do that within leadership. especially in tough situations, even in very exciting situations. You don’t want to go over- too overboard. But, you know, again, I think that was another thing that comes to this is like that that communication piece and making sure that like, understanding your own stress management, I cannot stress that enough. Communication, stress management, self-regulation, understanding what you’re actually going through yourself. But then also making sure you’re checking in with you. You can’t keep running on empty. At some point, the whole engine is going to stop right?

00;06;01;26 – 00;07;08;23
Kelly Parbs
And I always say to leaders, you can’t pour from an empty cup. And I do want to talk about, stress management and how important relaxation and rejuvenation is for leaders. But before that, I just want to appreciate that you mentioned the importance of empathy and that being kind of a hallmark of a strong, confident leader. I mentioned before those eight bullet points that I like so much, eight phrases that confident leaders use. And one of them is I hear you. That’s really an empathetic statement, right? To be able to say I, I hear what you’re saying. Another one is I have a different perspective than you, which I think is such- just a nice, respectful way of being able to say I’m okay with having a difficult conversation with you. I’m a leader. I’m empathizing, I hear you, I hear what you’re saying. But I do have a different perspective than you. And I’d like to talk about that.

00;07;08;25 – 00;08;02;21
Erin Petersen
Yeah and I think that, you know, that’s- that’s an important piece. And I think, I think as leaders, when we have teammates come to us and say the same thing to us, like, I don’t- I don’t have the same idea that you have? I think it’s very important to take a deep breath at those moments, because I have had- I’ve had leaders that have jumped down my throat and said like, no, this is the way it is, right? It’s my way or the highway type thing? And it’s such a, it’s kind of a let down as a- as it’s like is- that it’s tough to kind of come back from because, like, you might see things a little bit differently and your way of thinking might be actually the better way to handle it, because then, you know, a couple weeks later, you come back to that meeting and they’re actually doing exactly what you had stated from two weeks ago, and they touch at when they shut you down and then you kind of have to sit there and not say a word about it, right? What’s that’s- that’s a tough thing!

00;08;02;21 – 00;08;10;13
Kelly Parbs
Sure! And that feels stifling. And that’s very much the opposite of that growth mindset that we talked about that leaders should have.

00;08;10;15 – 00;09;10;15
Erin Petersen
Yeah! And I think that so when- when you talk about, you know, you can’t pour from an empty cup or you’ve got, you’re coming to, you know, listening to individuals. That’s a huge thing! And as a leader is allowing people to, to speak and to listen to what they have to say and give that time, space. I mean, you can regulate that space, right? You can regulate that time. You can set time limits as to how many times a week you’re going to do that as a leader. That’s time management. And- and keeping things on track. So I think it’s just it’s just a big piece. And I think I’ve gone through many different, leadership experiences. And that is the one thing that sticks out to me is that communication piece, is to always make sure that that people feel safe to come and speak to you, because the minute you put that roadblock up and make them not- and I’m not saying unsafe, like physically, emotionally safe to come and speak, because it’s not always easy for people to bring that out of themselves.

00;09;10;22 – 00;09;45;24
Kelly Parbs
Well, right! And- and even if they’re bringing an idea that ultimately does not come to fruition, the point that they were listened to and respected will put them in a place that down the road when they have another idea – and maybe it’s the great one that’s going to make a big difference! – they’re going to feel safe coming into your space and sharing that idea. Whereas if you shut them down a month ago or a year ago, you may never hear those future ideas that are excellent ideas because you shut them down!

00;09;45;26 – 00;10;39;29
Erin Petersen
Right! Right. And I think that that’s, that’s I mean, even as a mom or as a, as a daughter or as a sibling or as a friend, I always try to keep that mindset, too. I mean, I, I try to utilize that toolbox throughout my whole being, is to try to be a good listener and also to understand that, like, I have to manage my expectations from every direction, because not everybody is us, right? Not everybody is going to have that empathetic ear or that listening space, or give the body language, or there’s a lot of people there that don’t like hugging or, you know, there’s a lot- there’s so many things we have to kind of keep track of in our brains! True! And so when we’re loving, empathetic, giving, working, helping people, it’s hard to meet people that don’t have that same mindset. But then you- you know, that’s where I just say, we’re here for different reasons and, and move on. You know?

00;10;40;02 – 00;11;03;28
Kelly Parbs
That’s where that positive self-talk can really come in too, to be able to say to yourself, I’m in a very different place than this person. I may not necessarily agree with them, but they’re my colleague or they’re my teammate or, you know, I report to them or they report to me and I’m going to have a positive and respectful relationship with them, despite how they’re coming across.

00;11;04;00 – 00;11;47;03
Erin Petersen
But yeah, and I think that’s where your authentic self comes through, right? So just staying true to who you are, I mean, I obviously have to kind of pin things back because I can- I can be funny! And there’s times where you can’t be funny. But we work in, in environments for like humor and comedy kind of has to come through to help us kind of get through those tough, tough days, which some people don’t understand. That’s why I, I always am in that self-reflection mode of, okay, so I need to know my audience and they need to know who I’m working with. Sure! And, and- but then again, that’s where that risk taker comes because you take risks if you, if you make, a statement or kind of put some type of lightness to the, to the really tough situation, you got to know who you’re talking to.

00;11;47;05 – 00;12;10;18
Kelly Parbs
Sure! That’s part of that self-regulation- that’s part of that self-regulation piece. And by the way, I do a lot of training on resilience. And one of the key characteristics of resilience is, is being able to bring humor into a difficult situation. So certainly there are places and times for that. And as a leader, you have to know when and where that is.

00;12;10;20 – 00;12;12;13
Erin Petersen
Yep, that’s for sure. I agree completely.

00;12;12;13 – 00;12;31;24
Kelly Parbs
So you alluded to- to burnout, or exhaustion among leaders. And I’ve read that 65% of leaders have symptoms of burnout. So let’s talk about how important self-care and relaxation and rejuvenation for leaders is.

00;12;31;27 – 00;15;49;16
Erin Petersen
I think it’s- I think it’s the- it’s such a big- it’s such a big, key thing in this world right now. I think that we again, to go back to that learning, the learning the pause. I think meditation, I think journaling is great. I think listening to podcasts that make you feel good, music is huge. Music and art therapy is a huge piece that I go through for just myself. And, I mean, I can find myself in a boardroom and I’ll be, you know, there’s 15 minutes of time between the next speaker and I’m drawing because I’m kind of drawing out my, maybe anxiety about me going up to go speak next, right? Or I mean, there’s, there’s, there’s so many things, to do. But I also think that it’s important to know when to take the break. Make sure that you don’t- do you, do you need to be working five days a week in your office? Can you take a day where you can work from home and leadership? And I think it’s not always easy for our teams that work with us. But as a leader, if you have the opportunity to kind of take that day once one day a week, or maybe you get two days a week to work from home. I think remote work, if COVID has taught us anything, it’s allowed us to understand that we might get a lot more done at home, because there’s a lot that goes on within an office and things like that. So I think walking daily, if that’s something that you could do, I think healthy eating this huge. But finding what, what works best for you is, is what you have to do as a leader and make sure you’re building that within your day. Because if you’re not okay, what, what- if you’re not good for yourself, how can you be good for anybody else? How do you expect to keep giving, giving, giving if you don’t take the time to do this and that? And trust me, in the last, you know, ten years of my life, I’m always about like self-talk. And I’m telling people like ideas. There had- there was a moment very recently where I had to take that time and take a look at all the things that I was projecting out to help people and actually take some of that stuff in for myself. Sure! And take the time, and- and totally be confident with it! Like it’s not always the best feeling to say, like, hey, I have to do this for me? But you’re building your own, you’re building yourself back up, or you’re- you’re actually understanding something that- that’s within you that you may have been racing around for days and days and days and not allowed yourself to see. So again, self-reflection is huge. I think finding books, and listening to other leaders, maybe signing yourself up for like, I know around here by us, we have like, different nonprofits, different, directors will meet on a monthly basis and kind of just listening to what other people are going through within their organizations is kind of like a ‘Oh, good!’ It’s- I’m not the only person going through that or wow, I never looked at it that way. I should probably try to do it this way. So I think having some peer time, and, and talking to others is a huge thing too. I think group therapy talk therapy, or even just, you know, group sessions are huge, like think tanks! I think they’re wonderful, because you walk away feeling so great about like, maybe the stuff you’re doing, but also the opportunity to build something that you haven’t been doing.

00;15;49;19 – 00;18;01;08
Kelly Parbs
Absolutely! There’s always something to be learned from other people. And I actually facilitate groups within organizations a lot of times where the whole team can get together and just talk about their stress or their self care strategies, and at the end of it, it’s usually about 45 minutes to an hour, we get just such great feedback from people who say, you know, I never take dedicated time to just think about what I need to be rejuvenated and to fill that cup, you know, so that I can, as a leader, keep on giving. So I think- I think that’s great advice. And you mentioned, you know, we learned so much from the pandemic and I sure did too. During that time I worked a lot with medical doctors and nurses who were absolutely exhausted, honestly, exhausted at a level I probably have never seen before. And I even found myself thinking, how on earth can these people fill their cups? How can they take care of themselves given what is going on right now? There were so many factors just completely outside of their control, right? And when we’re stressed, we need to focus on what is it that we can control. and through that, we found that using meditation, focused breathing, even if they were only able to dedicate two minutes at a time, and I mean that quite literally, taking two minutes to focus, kind of reset, take deep breaths, do some meditation. And they experienced some relief and their clarity was improved, their ability to focus on their patients, which is so critical, right, during that time. Oh yeah! They were able to get through these long, hard days. And so I guess the takeaway or takeaways, was that people who even are absolutely burnt out and overwhelmed still have some level of control over how to manage their situation.

00;18;01;11 – 00;19;02;01
Erin Petersen
Yeah, I love what you just said about that, actually! I have a professional coach that I work with and I’m a therapist myself, okay. And during that time, mental health was a big piece. I think we kind of forgot about a little bit? But there was something that I, I do and it’s called compassing. I take a piece of paper, I cut it into fours, or I kind of write a crisscross, okay? And then the four sections, that kind of section out what I can control today or what I can control in this situation. And I think that’s such a, such a huge piece of, learning is that we can only control what we can control. Everything else around us, sure, we’d love to all change the world in a day! We’d all love to climb the mountain and be at the top, but you know, within an hour, you can’t. So breaking it down was really important during that time. But like even now in everyday life, compassing out what’s happening around me. You can only control what’s within your realm.

00;19;02;03 – 00;19;42;08
Kelly Parbs
Absolutely! And- and to be aware of that, to take time, to be mindful of that is a key piece of that. So for those leaders out there, or those of you who are working on your skills to become a leader, just please do remember that your self-care, your ability to be calm in a difficult situation? That’s not only good for you and your mental health, but it really brings calmness and confidence to your team, right? Chaos is contagious, but calmness is contagious as well, and it’s a great skill for you to learn in your- your leadership journey.

00;19;42;11 – 00;20;19;13
Erin Petersen
Even in like, you know, that’s the- the other thing I was going to state. Sometimes, you know, we have team meetings or like we have leadership meetings. I think even starting those leadership meetings with, like that two minute pause or even if it’s 60 seconds, which might feel like it’s- like a year long for some people because they don’t sit still well, it’s teaching each other that it’s okay to take that moment, to just breathe. I mean, that 60 seconds – just taking time to, like, shut your engines down for a minute and take deep breaths. Deep breaths are a big thing, right? And I cannot stress enough. So I’m so glad that we’ve- I’m so glad you said this because it’s- it’s huge!

00;20;19;16 – 00;20;45;07
Kelly Parbs
Absolutely! And for people who don’t know how to do that so well there- there really are a lot of resources. There’s- there’s apps for that, right? Oh yeah! If you just look up mindfulness or relaxation techniques or guided imagery, there’s a lot of information available for people who- who want to learn skills to be better at that.

00;20;45;07 – 00;21;50;12
Erin Petersen
Honestly! And the other thing that I think is kind of neat, especially with those apps like you can push the button and it kind of spins in a circle, so it allows you like it- it’s so easy to do! And I think that it’s important, to be able to allow your teams to have somebody within like a leadership team. I think it’s important to talk about who on that team is going to be able to do like a wellness, like the wellness part? Not everybody has a wellness team in their- in their organizations, but it’s kind of important to have that. I think that’s something that we learned during this time is that you need to have a place or someone that someone can speak to, which is usually within your HR department, I’m sure. But people need to know that there’s resources out there. So I think that’s something to kind of add to your boxes in your organizations to have, even if it is giving somebody a website or giving somebody a tech talk or showing somebody something on YouTube or giving them a book idea. I think that those resources are just as important as your health care benefits. Right?

00;21;50;15 – 00;22;17;05
Kelly Parbs
Absolutely. So Erin, let’s focus on some key takeaways for our listeners. I’m noticing the time, whether they’re in a new leadership role or they’re established leaders who are just continually trying to improve and grow as a leader. What are some main tips to consider, and work on?

00;22;17;08 – 00;24;39;26
Erin Petersen
So I think that, learning- one of the, number one thing is that learning to listen. So holding space for your individuals on your team, listening to the ideas and solutions they have, having the ability to learn from the team and- and improving communication? I think it strengthens your role as a leader. So again, that learning to listen is always going to be at the top of my list, taking responsibility, as a leader? It’s huge. You know, you take responsibility for your team and yourself. I think that taking responsibility promotes and builds trust, strengthens confidence and who we are, your teams and builds credibility as for you as a leader. but I also think that when they see that their leader is taking responsibility, it helps build that team with confidence themselves. I think being authentic, sort of the next bullet point of staying true to who you are, being transparent, staying honest? Stand by your ethics and your values. It’s- I think we live in a world where things can get a little gray. We don’t live in such a everything isn’t just this way or that way. You’ve got to be a little open into that. Leading with who you are within yourself. You can be a great example of greatness. I think one of the things, too, when it comes to that being authentic, is walk the walk and talk the talk. You be true to yourself. communication is key. I think being clear on your expectations as a person is huge. Being open and having that open door policy for your team allows them to have that stability and allows them to be creative themselves. And then I- that one thing I’ve learned in my years in my professional life is that strengths’ perspective. everybody has the capacity to- to learn from the strengths within them. So finding them and teaching people to pull those out is great. I think that we have an environment around us that are full of resources, that allows us to kind of lean on each other. So I think those are key points and leadership to me, so that learning to listen, take responsibility, be authentic. Communication’s key for your team and that strengths perspective is are six key things I use as a leader in my- in my roles.

00;24;39;29 – 00;26;08;27
Kelly Parbs
Excellent list, thank you for that! And I have to say that as you went through the list, I just kept coming back to those eight bullet points that I told you about. I’m sitting- I’m sitting in my home office and on my laptop, and I literally have a yellow sticky note that sticks close to my laptop that I use in a lot of my sessions with leaders. And so I just feel compelled to read you those eight things that emotionally intelligent, self-confident leaders say, because they relate to your list so well. Sure! And they are one, tell me more. You know, be curious and not judgmental. Two, I mentioned this one. How do you like to be communicated to? Three, I appreciate you. Just letting people know that you appreciate them is so important! Four, what are your thoughts? You know, it’s not just about me as a leader. I want to know what your thoughts are. That’s how you build a strong team! Five, I have a different perspective. Let’s talk about it. I think that one’s super important. Six, are you okay? So right, we’re saying we care about you as a as a human. Seven, I hear you, empathy. And eight, I’m sorry. Humility, right? Sometimes as leaders were wrong and you mentioned that take responsibility. Sometimes as a leader we have to say I’m sorry, I was wrong, and move on from there.

00;26;09;00 – 00;26;12;11
Erin Petersen
I love it. I need you to send me a copy of that!

00;26;12;13 – 00;26;39;03
Kelly Parbs
I can do tha!. I’ll take a picture of my yellow sticky notes! You won’t even know where I got that from, but I just think it’s great information. So while we wrap up here, I’m just so grateful for the time that you took today, but I would like to quickly just review some resources so that our listeners can leave saying, hey, you know, there’s some things I want to look into on my journey towards leadership. So what might those be? What would you recommend?

00;26;39;06 – 00;27;29;20
Erin Petersen
One of the major resources I use is that TED talk, and I actually oftentimes will pull up, you know, leadership TED talk like on your search engine, right? Or going on YouTube or, or giving yourself a, subscription to that. And one of the that Simon, I believe his name is Simon, Sign… I can’t think of his last name, but he’s got one on there that is about, how to be an effective leader, right? It’s Simon Sinek! S-I-N-E-K is his last name. He’s wonderful! He’s got a he’s got a podcast. So there’s podcasts out there that I go through like that Apple piece. I think the one of the greatest books, and I actually did this for my team last year, was that, Dare to- Dare to Lead by Brené Brown?

00;27;29;22 – 00;27;32;04
Kelly Parbs
Yeah, she has great information!

00;27;32;07 – 00;28;36;12
Erin Petersen
She does! And she actually had a great Netflix piece that might still be out there for people to kind of pull up. Like I said, Mel Robbins is one of my one of the people that I follow also? but there are TED talks out there that are just wonderful. I think, Jordan Peterson, he’s a psychologist from Canada. He’s wonderful. I think he’s got some great messages. And then, you know, other books that are there. There’s a- there’s a book called, Present over Perfect? What a wonderful book! I’m currently reading that. And there’s, you know, journals that can kind of go with that. So I think kind of feeling that out and just doing a search engine on your own to see that. But the resources are out there! And I think that Brené Brown, that Dare to Lead has a great online PDF file that you can actually download and work and use as tools to- to help train your teams? So I think there’s just- we’re so lucky and blessed with the world that we live in with technology because there’s so much out there.

00;28;36;14 – 00;28;42;17
Kelly Parbs
Absolutely! You mentioned to the D.I.S.C. training, did you say that’s regarding communication?

00;28;42;20 – 00;29;24;17
Erin Petersen
Yeah! There’s- that’s out there. And then there’s also another one that kind of coincides with that a little bit. I’m actually in the middle of this coaching training through a place called the Charmed Foundation? That’s a fabulous, fabulous company out of Chicago and learning your saboteurs? So, like, what to kind of go and coincide with the self-confidence piece. It teaches you those things that we do that like stop us from buying self-confidence. Right? So it allows you to kind of, bring those forward and understand, oh, that’s just me telling myself that inner voice that we have? We all have an inner leader within us to the key that kind of keeps that inner voice down when it’s that negative voice.

00;29;24;20 – 00;29;26;13
Kelly Parbs
Sure! And being able to recognize that!

00;29;26;18 – 00;29;32;27
Erin Petersen
Yeah! So again, there’s this, there’s this wonderful- there’s, there’s just a lot there’s a lot of wonderful things out there.

00;29;32;29 – 00;29;53;13
Kelly Parbs
So take the time, take the time to search for it! And I just want to add that if you work for an organization that has an employee assistance program, like the great one that is offered through Empathia, you can always check with them about what resources are available as well. Thank you for your time today, Erin!

00;29;53;15 – 00;29;56;15
Erin Petersen
Thank you so much, Kelly! This has been wonderful!

00;29;56;17 – 00;30;43;20
Kelly Parbs
Self-confident leaders are better able to build a culture of confidence among their teams. They bounce back quicker from setbacks and maintain a positive mindset, viewing challenges as opportunities. This sets the stage for individuals and work groups to have long term success, reduced turnover, higher employee engagement, sustainable growth, and much more. To hear more episodes of OnTopic with Empathia, visit our website, www.Empathia.com. Follow us on social media @Empathia, and subscribe to OnTopic with Empathia to hear new episodes as soon as they go live. I’m your host, Kelly Parbs. Thanks for listening to OnTopic with Empathia!