Is it better to run, hide, or fight? When it comes to responding to an active shooter, there’s drills, strategies, and even testimonials that you can train on, but Dr. Schoenfeldt says teaching’s the real secret. Following up from last week, Kelly dives back into active shooter response management with Dr. Mary Schoenfeldt, an emergency management professional with experience going back to responding to Sandy Hook in December of 2012, to talk about how various communities have responded to their own tragedies since, and what we can do to be more aware in case it happens again.
Listen to “Episode 19: Active Shooter Awareness with Dr. Mary Schoenfeldt, Part 2” on Spreaker.
Click here for the full episode transcription
OT Ep. 19 Transcription.txt
00;00;09;02 – 00;01;22;08
Kelly Parbs
Welcome to OnTopic with Empathia. I’m your host, Kelly Parbs. Today on the show we’re following up from last week’s episode with Dr. Mary Schoenfeldt, where we talked about targeted violence and active assailants. We talked about the characteristics of an active shooter and how individuals and communities might prepare themselves for a violent event. Dr. Schoenfeldt has responded to many crisis events, including several school shootings, Columbine, Sandy Hook, as well as a crisis in the community in which she lives in Washington State. Today, we are discussing the aftermath of an act of targeted violence, how it affects the entire community, and how we can take care of ourselves and each other. You can find part one of this conversation on our website, www.empathia.com. Hello, Mary. So I do want to talk a little bit about schools, too. You know, when I think about schools, it’s so hard for me personally to think about kids doing like active shooter drills. It’s just hard to think about, but I know it’s important. If you worked in education, Mary, because I know you’ve responded to so many school related incidents, what would you do to enhance security or prevent some of these incidents?
00;01;40;13 – 00;04;54;13
Mary Schoenfeldt
Well, there’s there’s many things, and I want to remind those that are listening in on this on this conversation is schools are one of the safest places that our kids ever are. And even with the increase that that we see on the news and as that we know that, you know, our kids are doing and, you know, active shooter drills or some sort of of drills that help to give them the information. So, you know, your question of what are some of the things that, you know, if I were in education and I certainly have been in some form. And first thing that I would do is I would make sure that I trained everybody on my staff and that everybody on my staff was trained in responses, not necessarily just a scripted response, but one where there was some thoughtful decision making that was being done at the time that we needed to respond. When I’m doing some training, I’ll say, If you want 100 pieces of very sophisticated surveillance equipment that can keep a watch on what’s happening on your campus in order to increase security, if you want a 100 pieces of surveillance equipment, train 50 people, you know, you already have the people, train them. But in addition to that training, Kelly, you need to support them. And when I say that, what I what I mean by that is if you have a visitor sign in procedure and I think every campus in the country and if I- if they don’t have, they certainly should by this time, have a visitor sign-in procedure of some sort that says if I’m visiting, I need to come into the office and I need to sign in. We started doing that from the security perspective. We also need to do it from an accountability perspective. So if that, you know, there’s an explosion next door and fire and police need to know who was in the building, then that- that system becomes that accountability system. But that- what that means? When I say support? What that means is I may be the mom or the grandma, then everybody knows. And that, you know, my great granddaughter, Lily, called me this morning and said, Hey, grandma, I forgot my lunch money. Would you drop my would you drop my lunch money off? And I’m going to be in Pod A. And I walk on campus, everybody knows me. I still should go to that front office and sign in. If I don’t and I just go to Pod C or wherever Lily might be, then the staff needs to stop me and say, Hey, Mary, have you signed in? I don’t see the tag on you.
00;04;54;20 – 00;04;56;14
Kelly Parbs
Mm hmm.
00;04;56;16 – 00;05;08;17
Mary Schoenfeldt
And then direct me back, because what’s happening as I’m getting educated now as Grandma Mary. I’m getting educated that I need to every time I need to stop there. It’s not-
00;05;08;17 – 00;05;09;26
Kelly Parbs
This is how it is, yep.
00;05;09;26 – 00;05;55;04
Mary Schoenfeldt
I need to stop there. And then I can do whatever I need to do for Lily. Even if and the support comes, then for Grandma Mary to be ticked off because I was in a hurry and everybody knew who I was. And why did the staff member make me go back to the office that, you know, I lost 47 seconds in my busy day and I’m going to complain to the administrator. The support comes from the administrator saying to Angry Grandma Mary, those are the procedures that we have in place to make sure that Lily is always safe.
00;05;55;07 – 00;06;01;17
Kelly Parbs
Have good procedures and stand by them and support your staff in standing by them.
00;06;01;20 – 00;07;57;08
Mary Schoenfeldt
Right. Right. Absolutely. And and, you know, some of the other things we talked about early intervention programs when we first started talking Kelly, that, you know, suicide prevention and- and connected programs where kids of of all types and at all stages have a place to feel that they’re noticed and that they’re valued and that they’re heard in- in whatever way. But then some of the other the other pieces from a security perspective is, having the having the technology that’s available out there now that just, you know, has some cameras, not from an intrusive way, but just a way of of watching large gatherings or passing periods or something like that. And making sure that staff has radio communication with one another or intercoms that can be heard in all- all areas of the school. I- one of the things I do is I do comprehensive school safety assessments and some of those are, you know, long and involved but that’s another thing that you can do. But just making sure that all of those pieces like a sign-in procedure, like making sure that outside doors are open or are when they should be, but that they’re also secured so that once school starts or during those times when students should be in classrooms, those are some of the things that will- will help for sure. Relationship with local police department, whether that school resource officer or something else. And those are some of the things that come to mind right away when I think about the security at school.
00;07;57;10 – 00;08;31;00
Kelly Parbs
So there’s a lot there. There’s a lot that we can do and and think about in terms of preparedness. And it feels like we could talk on this topic for another hour. But I do want to also talk about what if, God forbid, we are faced with an active shooter or an active assailant? What advice do you have then to protect ourselves and specifically Mary, I’m interested, if you could maybe tell our listeners about Run, Hide, Fight and tell us your thoughts on that.
00;08;31;03 – 00;15;14;04
Mary Schoenfeldt
First of all, again, we go back, situational awareness, know where you’re at and know where your safest places are and and if something is happening and you see it across the room or you see it down the hallway, your first action is to protect yourself and and to get out of there if you can. And that’s- Run, Hide, Fight is one of several models that looks at what some of our response is. And I will tell you very candidly in the beginning, when Run, Hide, Fight, some of the others came out being in this industry for as long as I have been, I looked at it a little sideways like, okay, Run, Hide, Fight. That sounds linear. Right? It’s step by step by step. And because I looked at it a little skeptically, then I actually have now been trained in Run, Hide, Fight because I wanted to know, first of all, what the training was and what the trainers were saying. And then secondly, really what the model was. And so it isn’t linear, it isn’t step by step. It’s having that situational awareness that says whatever is happening, I hear- I hear those sounds that I truly believe are gunshots, because along with those sounds, I hear some screams. Right? So it’s not fireworks. Sure. It’s something and it’s happening down the hall. I can’t see it. It’s not right here in front of me. Nobody is pointing a gun at me or driving a car in my direction. And so I have- I have a split second sometimes to either barricade. If there’s not an exit that’s somewhere close, put something between me and whatever that threat is, or I have time to go through this door that I noticed. And I think it goes into a supply room, but at least I’m not visible. Then those are your options. But it comes from being aware of first. So I you know, my my thoughts are it breaks my heart that we need it. Let me just start with that. Right. It absolutely breaks my heart that we need it and it breaks my heart that our kids need to be aware of it. But it also broke my heart that kids needed to be aware of stranger danger and unhealthy touch. Sure. And and yet we’ve we’ve trained our kids. We’ve given them that information. Information is power, whether whether you know, and there are some political things that are happening now about you know, some kids shouldn’t have some information. And I think within the developmental level, kids need to know what their world is. So and, you know, we do need to train, but we need to train. And I’m going to change my word. It isn’t train. We need to teach. We need to educate. And we need to educate in a way that doesn’t frighten children, though, that they’re they’re looking at everybody as being a threat that goes back to some of that brain science again that we talked about a little bit earlier. But- so we need to figure out how to educate. And I am not- let me underscore that- I am not an advocate for active shooter drills in school systems. I lost work and lots of work because I’ve said I won’t- I won’t do that, not when there are kids present and when it’s when you’re training the adults or teaching the adults, then Yes. And that and I’ve been involved in some that desensitized school staff to what it was that a gunshot sounded like. But when we’re looking at- when we’re looking at our and our kids age appropriate and what we really want our kids to do is we want them to listen to the adults that are around them. One of the schools that I work where I have as an elementary principal, that rather than doing some form of a Run, Hide, Fight drill, what she did is she created a listening drill. And what that listening drill did is when you know that, did the administrator or had said, we’re going to have a drill on Tuesday morning, whatever. And at the time that that message came across the intercom that said, okay, now there’s been whatever whatever it is, other staff then were doing what they were doing. But what this listening drill, what this administrator did is she said to her class, okay, I’m going to give you four directions. I want you to get up from where you’re sitting and I want you to go to the closest wall and I want you to touch the wall. Then I want you to turn around three times, and then I want you to go sit in a seat that isn’t yours. Okay? Go. So those four had absolutely nothing to do with what the initial threat might have been. But what she was doing was educating those students. Pay attention to me, the adult in the room, even though, you know, many of our kids think they’re the adults in the room, they aren’t. And pay attention to me, the adult in the room and listen and do what I’m telling you to do. Interesting! Situational awareness. And again, that’s one of my you know, one of my- my skepticism about some of the trainings that are out there that say, do these three things, because sometimes those three things are going to put you in danger as opposed to protecting you from danger. So listen, listening drills. So those there’s some of the ways that I think we can educate without frightening. You have to be very, very cautious about not frightening.
00;15;14;07 – 00;15;24;17
Kelly Parbs
Very interesting Mary, and I would be interested in any resources that you might be able to provide on that topic, because I’ve never heard it put exactly that way. Thank you.
00;15;24;20 – 00;16;13;17
Mary Schoenfeldt
And Kelly, let me add one more piece to that. Also, I have written and created full scale drills for businesses and schools and others. And when we do a full scale drill, meaning we bring fire, we pull, we bring police, we do, you know, we kind of- We create this environment and then we do our response. Sometimes what we’re doing is we’re educating that lonely, isolated, disenfranchized person, whether that’s a student or whether that’s an adult, who sometimes has been watching these things in some form or another. We are educating them on what our response will be.
00;16;13;20 – 00;16;15;09
Kelly Parbs
Interesting. Yes.
00;16;15;11 – 00;17;13;27
Mary Schoenfeldt
Giving we almost are doing consumer education in some ways. If there is someone who’s observing or participating in that event and they’ve got some things going on that says, I’m thinking about doing this, let me watch and see how that happens. How can I do it better by my estimation? So I think we need to be really, really cautious about the kinds of education and training that we do. And I use, you know, we don’t teach kids about inappropriate touch by touching them inappropriately. Right? There’s another piece, another way that we educate. And we need this, in my- in my view, we certainly need to be doing that same thing when we’re talking about protecting kids and not just kids; adults as well.
00;17;13;29 – 00;18;04;25
Kelly Parbs
You know, on this topic of drills, I’d like to just quickly mention that organizations should be very aware of how they organize their drills. I’ve personally been involved in at least two situations where employees at organizations, for whatever reason, were not aware that there was an active shooter drill happening. And they, of course, experienced the situation then as if it really were happening! So perception is reality, right? Great lessons came for those organizations in being very mindful to use excellent communication in preparing for and executing a drill, because trauma is trauma. Whether or not the situation was really happening.
00;18;04;27 – 00;19;29;03
Mary Schoenfeldt
Yeah, and you know, our brain can’t sort that out. Oh, gee, this is pretend? Even if you do know the drill is happening, you know, there’s there’s multiple, multiple, multiple lawsuits that have come as a result of some of the harm and that we’ve done with some of the live action drills, and our fire department or our police department? They drill like that every single day! And for them, that’s- you know, they’ve got their own psychological body armor that protects them from being harmed in some way. Harm is a strong word, but from being impacted in a negative way. Our parishioners, our fellow folks in church, our business leaders, our school leaders, they don’t have that armor. And certainly our citizens and our kids don’t have that armor. So whether it’s an announced or an unannounced, unannounced drills are just not not ever anything that I support, but even if it’s an announced drill, then knowing that there will be because there’s- there’s a physiological response. Yes! That happens, and 132 chemicals dump and we have no control over those 132 chemicals when our brain is in that shock mode.
00;19;29;09 – 00;19;50;19
Kelly Parbs
Yes. And there can be long term consequences from that for sure. Yep. So I just wanted to mention the importance of communication and in organizing a drill, I’m wondering what are the the very first priorities for a community or a business after a violent act has happened?
00;19;50;22 – 00;21;50;02
Mary Schoenfeldt
That’s a great question. And I’m going to respond on two different levels because one of them is an individual level, and the other one is maybe that business or that community and so it’s more of a system level. Sure. And, you know, individually, first of all, you know, some targeted violence of whatever form and shakes up our sense of safety. It shakes up our sense of fairness and justice. Justice in the world. And it reminds us that maybe we don’t have as much control over our lives as we’d like to think we do, right? So it makes us feel vulnerable. So some of the first things that we need to do personally, individually, is do whatever we can do to reestablish our own personal sense of safety and the safety of those that we love or that we care about. So anything that we can do along that way certainly is one of the first things that we want to do. We want to look at, again, from that individual perspective, just some healthy things, like stay away from the caffeine and the sugar. You know, maybe we want to head for those donuts, but that’s probably not the best? It seems easier to order pizza than it is to make a salad, but stay away from the pizza and eat salad! So there is those, again, those physiological pieces of making sure that we are taking care of ourselves and with, you know, protein and vegetables and fruit and lots and lots and lots of water. Okay. Just a couple of quick references to the survival chemicals. There’s 132 of them that dump. We need to get rid of those. They need to get washed out of our body. And the way that they’re going to get washed out of our body is by hydrating them, and by maybe by sweating it out. So, you know, some exercise.
00;21;50;05 – 00;22;01;06
Kelly Parbs
And we dehydrate so fast when we are in a traumatic or difficult situation, we dehydrate so fast. We need to drink so much more water than we typically would.
00;22;01;09 – 00;24;26;25
Mary Schoenfeldt
Absolutely. And and those survival chemicals and they regulate our heart rate, how fast our heart beats and you know, how how deeply we breathe and how we how we digest our food, all of that is impacted. So we want to get ourselves back individually and on some sort of balance again. We will never go back to the moment before. We will never go back. In fact I talk about, there’s no such thing as this new normal or to go back to normal. Normal is just a setting on a drier. Let me repeat that. Normal is just us setting on a dryer. And if we are looking for normal to be, that’s how I know I’m okay? We’re never going to get there because our universe just shifted. And so we’re setting ourselves up to fail. If we’re looking for normal, what we really want is we want to be comfortable. We’re not going to get comfortable until whatever this new way is that we are, because our universe shifted. We’re never going to get comfortable until it’s familiar. It doesn’t get familiar without a little bit of time. So we’re never going to get back to that normal, but on an individual basis and also on a community basis and just doing what we can do to reestablish that sense of routine and that sense of safety and- and making sure that we are having extra connections with people and understanding it’s going to take us some time. I responded in the Columbine and the end to Littleton, Colorado, three different times following the Columbine shooting. One of them was four months later, and I had a mom in a community meeting say to me, Mary, how do I how do I let my kids sleep in their own bedroom again? She said, I’m making all of us sleep in sleeping bags on the floor. How do I let them go? That’s not- it’s somewhat extreme and yet it’s not extreme. ccSo just understanding that the universe shifted and who you were yesterday and who everybody else in your community yesterday is not quite the same.
00;24;26;28 – 00;25;08;13
Kelly Parbs
That experience is always going to be part of the fabric of who you are, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t be okay, right? And to surround yourself with people who you feel safe with both physically and emotionally, and to feed and nourish your body. I’ve responded to so many tragedies where people think, you know, I don’t want to talk to a counselor. Well, no, they don’t want to talk to a counselor. They need a bottle of water! They need to eat! You need a comfortable chair to sit in, that’s what they need first. And the lessons for organizations and in all of that, too, to allow your people time and like you said, that takes time.
00;25;08;15 – 00;25;33;03
Mary Schoenfeldt
It does take time. And there is no right way to deal with this, right? There just isn’t. For some people, it will be, I want to talk continuously and other people will be I don’t want to say anything. I just- I can’t even form the words. Some people will want to sleep just like, leave me alone. I’m going to, you know, sleep and stay in bed and nap. And other people are not going to be able to sleep at all.
00;25;33;06 – 00;25;35;02
Kelly Parbs
And they’re all right! Those are all right!
00;25;35;06 – 00;25;53;14
Mary Schoenfeldt
Absolutely. They are. They’re all right. So, you know, from that individual level, just know that it’s going to take some time, but pay attention, you know, be aware with some self awareness and, you know, do some normal structured things, etc., on that.
00;25;53;14 – 00;25;56;17
Kelly Parbs
Stay off of social media, by the way! Stay off of social media.
00;25;56;17 – 00;26;25;07
Mary Schoenfeldt
Oh, right! Turn off the TV. And, you know, one of the things when we- when people watch the same the same news story over and over and over again, subconsciously we’re looking for a different ending, right? Subconsciously, we’re looking for a different ending. That’s why it’s so hard. We just keep keep that TV running or we keep checking or, you know, the social media on our phones. And subconsciously we’re looking for a different ending and it’s not going to end any differently.
00;26;25;10 – 00;26;46;02
Kelly Parbs
That news isn’t going to be different 5 minutes from now. And I always teach people, give yourself 10 minutes a day and have it not be before bedtime but to check the story and then check it again the next day. But don’t keep coming back. You just re-experiencing that trauma over and over and not allowing your brain to heal.
00;26;46;04 – 00;29;27;13
Mary Schoenfeldt
Right! Yeah. That reads- good points for sure. And then from that system perspective and a couple of things, our community will go- our community is greatly impacted as much as individuals are impacted. So what we want to do is we don’t want to overwhelm the responders. But we do want if there’s a visual of some sort, attend, if that feels right, if it doesn’t feel right, don’t! And don’t feel like there is a right way for your community to recover, know that the community is going to be different. Know that traffic is going to be terrible! And whatever your typical routine was, it may not be that way. So and then also understand from that community perspective and that people’s awareness is heightened. So maybe if you are a, you know, a local restaurant, it could be that business is going to fall off. And I’ve done some studying of the economic impacts of some of this and what we find is that small businesses suffer. And so if your community has some kind of an event like this, support your small business, go grocery shopping, walk into a, you know, a small restaurant, use the coffee shop and know that that will make a difference. Spend your money locally. A lot of people want to donate money following something like this. Be very aware of where that money is going. First of all, let’s secondly, make sure it remains in your community and that it is you’re donating to a place that’s credible. Look for your local Rotary Club to use their already existing foundation to be that that place where you’re going to donate some money to. And so that your money is for people who are impacted, which could be observers. It could be somebody who wasn’t even in the room or in there in the location when we want to donate some money. Those are some of the things that we want to do. But from that, from a business perspective.
00;29;27;15 – 00;30;26;08
Kelly Parbs
I really appreciate those tips. And you’re reminding me, Mary, I heard you speak once about, you know, people who want to volunteer, right? They want to do the right thing. That’s wonderful. We want to encourage that. And- and we know that volunteering helps us too, right? It helps us heal. It helps reach that desire to do something and kind of eases that that feeling of powerlessness. But I heard you talk once about all of the donations of school supplies that came in after Sandy Hook, such generous and lovely gestures. But the problem was school supplies weren’t what was needed. So I was hoping that you would speak to kind of, what are the do’s and don’ts? What are things that we can do? Like you just said, we can donate, we can support our local community. But there are some things that maybe aren’t so helpful to do as well. I thought maybe you could share that story.
00;30;26;11 – 00;32;54;10
Mary Schoenfeldt
Well, I certainly will. And yes, I mean, Sandy Hook is just one of the examples, but it’s one of the communities that I spent quite a bit of time in over a couple of years and do have some some examples certainly from that community. And- but there was a whole room full of school supplies that got donated and they didn’t need school supplies. In addition to that, there were more than 60,000 teddy bears, 60,000 teddy bears that were donated to the police department and to the school and to the community of Sandy Hook, Connecticut. Nobody asked for a single teddy bear. And what that did is can you imagine being the Postal Service that now all of a sudden, I mean, it shut down that that town was shut down for lots of reasons, but that was one of them! One of the factors was that and here comes 60,000 teddy bears, all in packages, all need to be received. And then hopefully cataloged in some way and then stored in some way and then distributed. It was a couple of years they were still Sandy Hook. That community was putting notices out to domestic violence shelters and foster care shelters, saying, Does anybody need any teddy bears? Because we’ve got some. So it cost the community a lot as well as just the inconvenienced. So as much as and you know, some of the other things that I’ve seen the donated constantly – hula hoops, and a litter box? Shen I was doing something with with an animal event, a litter box that had not been cleaned out. Oh, so people are, you know, plastic hula hoops, dirty plastic flowers. And so you know, the intent, the heart’s good or they’re sending prom dresses into and communities that have been devastated by earthquakes and people don’t have a home, let alone need upon a prom dress. Donated goods.
00;32;54;13 – 00;33;41;03
Kelly Parbs
Yeah, it comes from a good place. It comes from a that hard but but keep in mind the logistics of what is going to have to happen with these items. And, you know, could it cause a delay in other types of services because people have to deal with- with all of that? And so just really to think through, what are your donations? And maybe go through a more organized way of of donating so that you can help. And then back to the point that we were making earlier, really, if you have those relationships with emergency teams beforehand and you know what they want and what you can do, that’s going to be more helpful than jumping in with some of these ideas afterwards.
00;33;41;09 – 00;34;08;03
Mary Schoenfeldt
Right. And in the monetary donation, make sure you know where that’s going, because there are, you know, there are GoFundMe accounts that pop up and say, gee, I’m the aunt of somebody who was killed in this event and I need airfare. But it’s a scam. So be cautious about those kinds of things. And then to go back to how do we prevent this in our $10 car wash? Right?
00;34;08;03 – 00;34;09;13
Kelly Parbs
Back to the car wash!
00;34;09;15 – 00;34;43;05
Mary Schoenfeldt
Back to the car wash! Right! So if if, if if your heart’s broken because this happened in your community and you want to make a difference, take that $10 out, $100, whatever, and donate it to the local soccer club or the youth serving club or some other organization that’s going to help with some of that early intervention, that early notice and intervention that may prevent one in the future. So get your car washed!
00;34;43;10 – 00;35;02;20
Kelly Parbs
Get your car washed! Well, that brings me to just a couple more questions, because I’m aware of our time here. Mary, if you were to put together a list of three pieces of advice for our listeners concerning this topic of violent attacks, what would those three takeaways be?
00;35;02;22 – 00;35;48;04
Mary Schoenfeldt
Well, first of all, would be remind yourself that these don’t happen every day and they don’t happen in your community every day. And so, you know, just look at your world. Don’t look at what you’re hearing on the news. Don’t look at what you’re seeing on social media, but look at your world and, you know, go for a walk with your dog or, you know, call your neighbor and say, hey, let me help you with that gardening thing that you’re working on, right? So just look at what your world is and keep your reality and in front of you without getting drawn into what we think is happening all the time, all around us. And truly, it’s not.
00;35;48;06 – 00;35;50;17
Kelly Parbs
There’s so much good in the world. Notice it.
00;35;50;19 – 00;36;12;03
Mary Schoenfeldt
Absolutely. And be a part of that! So, you know, smile in the grocery store at somebody that, you know, you you’ve never met and you never will meet. Let somebody emerge in front of you when you’re driving, right? Those are, again, simple things? Not probably not the kind of advice that most people would think, but they’re the things that really do change the world, I think. And secondly, know your surroundings. Yeah, we want to we want to remember that our lives are okay. However, there is still always some reasonable risk out there, so just know what your surroundings are. And when you when you walk down the street, when you walk in a business, when you walk into church, when you walk into a movie theater, just notice what what is around you and make community connections as a volunteer! Join your local Rotary Club and make those connections, and those are the kinds of things that will- that will make a difference. So some of those, you know, of my three obviously, some of them are individual, some of them are let’s prevent the next one. And some of them has to do with how do we stay safe in this one just by knowing where we’re at.
00;37;12;10 – 00;37;33;07
Kelly Parbs
Great, great stuff. And finally, you know, because it’s my job to talk to people about resilience and mental health, I have to ask, because you are exposed to so much trauma, can you tell us what you do to take care of yourself. What are some of your self-care strategies?
00;37;33;10 – 00;38;01;07
Mary Schoenfeldt
Well, first of all, I pick and choose what I get involved in. Fortunately, there are many, many people in the world that can provide some support. It’s not all me and I am well aware of that. And I’m very, very grateful for that. So I pick and choose. I pick and choose what kind of movies I watch. I pick and choose what kind of- of opportunities like to talk with you, Kelly, that I take knowing that-
00;38;01;08 – 00;38;02;28
Kelly Parbs
Oh, I’m glad you took this one!
00;38;03;00 – 00;40;13;15
Mary Schoenfeldt
And you know, what kind of work projects I get asked to do. So, you know, I’ve set some boundaries and they haven’t always been easy boundaries to set. But I’m at a place in my own personal and professional life that I know that I need those boundaries because I’ve not had them and had some, you know, adverse pieces it. One of the things that when I did go to Sandy Hook, we talked about Sandy Hook just a couple of minutes ago, when I was- when I got asked to go first, the first time, it was to be a part of a specialty team. And it was a week or so after the shooting and my kids and I said, yes, and my kids, of course, thought I was fabulous, right? Oh, my God, you do so much and so many cool things! And it was a it was a daughter, or granddaughter in law who said, Oh, Grandma Mary, that’s wonderful. That’s so wonderful that you’re doing that and and we won’t bother you at all while you’re gone. And I said, Leah, I need you to do it exactly the opposite. Because the majority of victims in Sandy Hook or elementary school kids at that time, I had a five year old, Miley, and a seven year old, Daniel, that were the children- that were my great grandchildren. So Leah said, my granddaughter and I said, Well, we won’t bother you at all. I said, Leah, I need you to do it exactly the other way. I need you to text me a couple of times a day and take pictures of Miley and Daniel as they’re fighting with each other and they’re eating macaroni and cheese or they’re doing whatever they’re doing, because that will remind me that my kids are okay. This is not my grief that I can feel and I could taste as I’m in this community. So some of that’s boundaries. Some of that is just simply awareness and putting some very specific pieces in place.
00;40;13;15 – 00;40;21;10
Kelly Parbs
And just staying connected to the people that- that you love and who love you. There’s great value in that.
00;40;21;12 – 00;40;27;26
Mary Schoenfeldt
And the other thing that, you know, when we started, Kelly, you told me I was a rock star. And I hunt rocks!
00;40;28;00 – 00;40;29;21
Kelly Parbs
You do! Right!
00;40;29;23 – 00;40;53;00
Mary Schoenfeldt
That is, I am a rock hunter! So, you know, I come from a long line of rock hunters, and I have trained all of the generations below me to be rock hunters as well. The majority of my family and I don’t even have to find a rock, right? Sort of like fishing. I like to fish, too. And it’s nice to catch a fish, but it’s it’s the act of doing.
00;40;53;00 – 00;40;55;03
Kelly Parbs
It’s the fishing, not the catching.
00;40;55;06 – 00;42;05;03
Mary Schoenfeldt
It’s the- it’s the fishing, yeah! The fishing has two parts. You fish and then you catch, right? And it is the same with rock hunting! Just being able to go out and walk on the beach and look for beach agates or to go somewhere where there’s some fossils. And I don’t typically do it alone. And that’s one of the other pieces is there’s certainly connection and primarily family connection, but not only family connection. I am getting ready to do a week long rock hunting trip with two of my daughters and their five grandchildren. So it’s five of my great grandchildren now, ages 7 to 13. And so with the five adult women, me and my two, two of my my three daughters and these five kids and we’re doing a week long rock hunting trip in central Oregon. And it’ll be great, you know, and we’ll roast hot dogs and we’ll laugh and we’ll walk and we’ll tell stories and maybe-
00;42;05;03 – 00;42;06;05
Kelly Parbs
Wow!
00;42;06;08 – 00;42;12;07
Mary Schoenfeldt
-we’ll find a fossil. I don’t know, I besides me, they call me the fossil. (laughs)
00;42;12;10 – 00;42;35;01
Kelly Parbs
Thank you for that. And I hope our listeners are thinking about what are their self-care strategies, what builds them up, what fills your cup, and be aware of those things and set goals and do those things so that you can be happy and healthy. Thank you, Mary, for your words of wisdom and your time. I’m so grateful!
00;42;35;04 – 00;42;45;17
Mary Schoenfeldt
It’s been a great conversation. Kelly. I appreciate the opportunity and I wish there was a chance we could turn the tables because I know that you’ve got a great deal of wisdom and experience as well.
00;42;45;23 – 00;42;48;07
Kelly Parbs
Well, maybe that will be another conversation.
00;42;48;09 – 00;42;49;25
Mary Schoenfeldt
There we go!
00;42;49;28 – 00;43;23;29
Kelly Parbs
Next time on OnTopic, we’ll continue speaking about targeted attacks of violence. What happens to our communities? How can we recover? To hear that episode and other episodes of OnTopic with Empathia, visit our website www.empathia.com. Follow us on social media @Empathia and subscribe to OnTopic with Empathia to hear new episodes as soon as they go live. I’m Kelly Parbs- Thank you for listening to OnTopic with Empathia!
