Episode 12: Surviving the Christchurch Earthquake with Jolie Wills, Part 1

OT Ep. 12 Transcription.txt
00;00;09;03 – 00;01;13;27
Rick Hoaglund
Welcome to OnTopic with Empathia. I’m your host, Rick Hoaglund. Imagine what it must be like to go through a huge natural disaster, a natural disaster that would gain global attention. Well, that’s exactly what happened to our guest today. Jolie Wills and her family did just that. I’ll let her tell us about it. The event made such an impression that Jolie made it her life’s mission to help those that have undergone responded to or are affected by a crisis. Jolie is a cognitive scientist and she’s a specialist in disaster recovery. She has led and supported teams under pressure in challenging, post-disaster context. She has conducted global research and she’s applied that learning from disasters to build the resilience of leaders and teams. Jolie is a Winston Churchill fellow, a leadership New Zealand alumni, an Edmund Hillary fellow, and an advisory to the Global Counterterrorism Prevention Network. Hello, Jolie. Thanks for joining us!

00;01;13;27 – 00;01;16;22
Jolie Wills
Hi! Nice to hear from you, Rick.

00;01;16;24 – 00;02;43;26
Rick Hoaglund
Nice to hear from you, too. Welcome to our podcast and thank you so much for joining us today. Each year, tens of thousands of people are killed in natural disasters. In the last decade, over 45,000 people a year have died as a result of flooding. Hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanoes, drought, tornadoes, tsunamis and more. That’s about 1/10 of 1% of total deaths globally. The natural disaster may also kill tens of thousands more because of the effects that ripple throughout the area and potentially the world, causing famine, housing shortages, and economic effects. And I understand that you have quite a story about a particular natural disaster that you went through. And actually, before we go there, I’m just going to spill the beans as to what it is, because I want to inform our audience just in case they have any reaction or if it triggers anything for them that they know what’s coming. It’s an earthquake. And so we’re going to be talking about your experience with earthquakes, but then we’re going to expand that to how about resilience and community resilience and and how communities work together and about about alleviating some stress and tension among the responders over our next episode and the next episode as well. And so let’s start with your experience. So you went through an earthquake, right?

00;02;43;28 – 00;02;46;15
Jolie Wills
Yeah, we did. You want the back story?

00;02;46;17 – 00;02;48;15
Rick Hoaglund
Go ahead. All the back story!

00;02;48;18 – 00;06;43;00
Jolie Wills
Okay, so it all started for us- it was a very cold spring morning. It was 4:00 in the morning in my hometown, just outside of Christchurch in New Zealand. So I now live in Denver, Colorado. But at the time and for a long chunk through the recovery, I was living in just outside of Christchurch in New Zealand and my husband and I woke it was 4:00 in the morning and- I should preface this by saying I grew up with a lot of earthquakes in the north Island of New Zealand, right? And for me, those earthquakes were kind of exciting. They were kind of like a really good thunderstorm. And this morning- and the other thing to say in terms of context is where we lived. We did not expect a large earthquake to occur. So the fault that actually ruptured was not a known fault. So, you know, in the North Island where I grew up, we would have had everything secured, you know, like much more prepared than what we were this morning back in 2009. And so my husband and I woke and my immediate thought was, “Cool, an Earthquake!” and a very, in a split second went from ‘cool earthquake’ to this is something else and just- I don’t know, utmost terror is probably the- the simplest way of putting it. It’s really hard to articulate, you know, just the violence of it. So for many people in our community, they thought that an aircraft had come down, a plane had come down, was coming through their backyard or the train, you know, with the railway lines nearby had derailed and was coming through their house. So to give you a sense, and my husband and I, it’s pitch black. We couldn’t communicate over the roar of the earth, but somehow we just knew. I don’t know. It’s one of those instinctual things that we would go one to each kid. And so I’m not even sure how we managed that. You know, thinking back, the whole house had turned into this obstacle course. So the floors were jumping, you know, the doors were flapping, the walls moving, the furniture was toppling. But somehow we got one to each kid. It wasn’t very far, it was just the next two doors down on the hallway. So I went to my daughter, managed to fish her out of her bed, which was not easy because the beds moving, she wasn’t light, you know, managed to fish her out with one arm. She was a six year old and then the other arms holding up the bookcase, you know, And later, oddly, in that I pulled a whole lot of muscles in my rib cage, but no idea at the time because, you know, you don’t, well, I didn’t feel anything due to adrenaline, but managed to fish her out from her bed and got her under the door frame where I knew at least something would not fall on us. And the meantime, my husband had gone to my son in the next room, but it was just a few feet away. And at that moment I had no idea if they had survived. Couldn’t hear each other, even if we tried, over what was happening and what I was hyperfocused on in that moment was what I could control. And for me it was making the last moments my daughter, the best that they could be, right? As calm as possible. That was what I was focused on. And you know, after when things settle down a bit, you know, I thought I was doing a great job of that and she said, Mom, you were squeezing me too hard, you know? So there it’s just this kind of, we can look back and laugh about a few things. Now, my son, who seemed like, you know, he was ten years old, waking up from the earthquake, terrifying enough, but even more terrifying that was having this huge rugby player, you know, like and I, I dunno what it is. I’m still working in kilos, you know, good old 100 kilos, about 250 pounds I think, come leaping into his room, land on top of him and brace himself, you know, on top of my son. So all sorts of stories in the community of people sheltering under tables and realizing, you know, that they had daughters with with people sleeping over and the parents didn’t have clothes on, all sorts of interesting moments. And where you’re just in survival mode at that point. But for us, that was just the beginning of things. You know, it was a 7.1 magnitude earthquake, very shallow, very close to to where we lived. And it was I guess, the beginning of a really long journey. We often don’t think past those initial moments.

00;06;43;03 – 00;06;58;09
Rick Hoaglund
So- so tell me, a 7.1 for people that don’t know earthquakes. I mean, it’s a number, right? But if it’s shallow, that means something, too. So what is there something you can compare it to? I mean, what did it feel like to you, like a bomb went off or…?

00;06;58;14 – 00;07;56;27
Jolie Wills
It did feel like a the train had come through the house! That sort of, you know, like I remember thinking there’s no way a building can move this much. And I can’t remember meters or that- that horizontal displacement, I cannot remember exactly what it was. But I just think there’s no way a building can move this much and still stay standing and it was amazing. It did. You know, we were very, very fortunate. Damaged but still standing. So very had. But yeah, if it’s shallower so you can have a 7.1 magnitude earthquake and if it’s- if it’s really deep at this, you know, it’s not as bad. But, you know, and we had these multiple fault lines that started interacting over the next few years. And as locals, we became amateur seismologists. We could tell you which fault line, how big, how shallow, where it came from. That was amazing. Like we became pretty astute to being able to get a sense of how big they were, where they- where they’re located, if it was going to be a dent where that created damage or not.

00;07;56;29 – 00;08;07;23
Rick Hoaglund
So this large earthquake happens and there were aftershocks afterwards as well. Like it’s not just an earthquake. When earthquakes this large happen many times there’s aftershocks.

00;08;07;25 – 00;08;09;08
Jolie Wills
Absolutely.

00;08;09;11 – 00;08;10;14
Rick Hoaglund
Could you feel those?

00;08;10;17 – 00;09;35;23
Jolie Wills
Yes. Yes. And they were life threatening, you know, so it changes the way in which you you live your life. It wakes you through the night. You know, we had my daughter sleeping on the floor in our room. You can go to the supermarket and send your kids to ours. I have to get the milk because you just never knew when these things were going to happen. And it was actually one of these aftershocks that is probably the most well known part of earthquake sequence because it was an aftershock a few months later, you know, that claimed the lives of 185 people. So when I say that, you know, these are deadly, it was actually an aftershock that caused the greatest damage and the greatest tragedy for our city. So it wasn’t the initial earthquake. In fact, for that one, we felt quite smug. It wasn’t long after Haiti, and Haiti, you know, had had such a horrific time of it. And I mean, but we thought we were just so fortunate to have these amazing, you know, building codes and, you know, look at what a difference it makes. And all of that is true. But that earthquake happened when most people were in bed. It happened Locaters, you know, Twin Peaks, south of the city where we live. But the next one was much closer to the city itself and happened at lunchtime, which caused a few buildings to collapse and facades to fall off the front of buildings onto busses. Landslides caught people out and about claimed 185 lives and injured thousands of people.

00;09;35;26 – 00;09;49;03
Rick Hoaglund
So tell me a little bit about the reaction to your that your family had to the earthquake. So what was that like for your kids? What was it like for you? What was it like for your husband? It- it sounds terrifying.

00;09;49;06 – 00;11;01;01
Jolie Wills
Yeah, it was. And I think it’s it’s living in that constant state. And the only thing I can if you haven’t been through it that I can liken it to is a little bit like with COVID, you know, like you’re constantly having to to change the way you live with a parent. You’re always hyper alert, you know, to danger. You just feel like you’re you’re making progress and then suddenly you’re back to square one again with another outbreak or another aftershock. You know, every time there’s a big aftershock, we had liquefaction. This is where the ground liquefies, you know, as a result of the shaking. And then it bubbles to the surface. It looks like sewage seeping everywhere, but it’s just muddy, horrible water. And when it does that, it leaves voids behind underneath driveways, underneath homes, underneath foundations of large buildings. And then it dries into this the silt that needs to be dug and sorted over and over again. So I think, you know, we weren’t prepared for I mean, I knew we would have aftershocks, but I didn’t know we would have 15,000 aftershocks, you know, over five years. And I didn’t know quite what was ahead in terms of what it would take to rebuild and go through the recovery process for a large city that was impacted.

00;11;01;03 – 00;11;26;28
Rick Hoaglund
So- so tell me your you’ve gone through this terrible earthquake. You’ve miraculously all survived. And I would call it a little injury because you had some pulled muscles and things. But yeah, what was it what did you expect? I mean, at that point, I mean, you haven’t even gone outside yet. It’s the early morning. You haven’t gone outside. What did you expect? And then what was it like when you actually walked out into your community?

00;11;27;01 – 00;14;38;15
Jolie Wills
I just remember… I remember thinking, okay, we kind of prepare for this, right? We have our our, you know, go kit or our, you know, stash of food and water, but nothing really prepared us for what do we do now? You know, So I remember going out into the street and thinking, you know, what happens now? What are the rules for this? You know, and through this- in the months ahead, there was a lot of the sense of we don’t we don’t know what’s ahead and we don’t know how to navigate our way through it. We haven’t done this before. It’s all- it’s all new. And we’re always told and preparing for disaster to think about those first 72 hours, you know, But then what? So I know, you know, as a family, as a city, as a community, we had no real concept of what it was going to take to repair a city and a city full of impacted houses. You know, that’s a huge job then, in terms of what is required, even the horizontal infrastructure, you know, five years to fix the roads and the pipes before we could even do a whole lot of what was on top of those, you know, so- or the sheer volume of aftershocks, no, no concept of what was ahead. So I guess we started with this naive sense of optimism. You know, we had no real concept of how long it would take, you know, and or the length of time. We just weren’t prepared for it. And we all started out in this adrenaline filled mode, alright? So our biology- biology is amazing like that. But we were in this let’s just get it done mode, let’s just get it sorted. Naive sense of how long it would take, but the reality was, you know, this isn’t something that could be fixed or sorted in any in any quick order at all. There were lots of roadblocks. There are lots of delays, lots of systems that were stretched and overloaded and hundreds of decisions and challenges that we had to face as a family and as a community. And I guess one of our learnings was when you try to run at it in this adrenaline fueled way, you know, this this long haul of recovery, it’s an exercise in futility. And one of the things we kept saying was it was a recipe for neglecting the really important things in your life. So we’d say, you know, when you become really task oriented, you neglect your health, right? You neglect your relationships, the things that give you your life, a whole lot of color that you love, because they seem superfluous when you’re dealing with, you know, this huge to do list right in front of you. And when it turns out to be something that requires this really long, sustained effort, which isn’t something people were expecting or prepared for at the beginning, right? Then you put these things on hold for a really long period of time, and the impact that you see play out on people’s health and on the relationships, the mental health, the quality of life. And one of the things that was really obvious and we’ve seen that same play out in lots of other disasters, is that people can risk coming out with a fixed home but with the rest of their life in tatters, you know. So yeah, I think in terms of your question, what we expected and what played out would be very different. But actually it should be expected because it’s what we see play out again and again after disaster.

00;14;38;17 – 00;15;04;22
Rick Hoaglund
So were you able to- I’m thinking about you talked about infrastructure damage that you talked about. So- so what did you do as a family? And then I’m going to ask you to also talk about the community as well. Was your house okay? let’s just start there. Was your house- were you able to live in your house? Were you able to go back in or did you need to camp somewhere else? I don’t know exactly what the word is, you know, but yeah.

00;15;04;24 – 00;16;50;14
Jolie Wills
A house. A house was okay, you know, and it’s all relative. And so we felt very fortunate so we could remain in our home. We had to have, you know, multiple rounds of repairs done, you know, when after aftershocks keep kept coming, you just get one lot of repairs done and you’d have to start again. And, you know, you were on a list with a whole lot of people needing repairs to their home. We were very aware that others had homes that weren’t necessarily weatherproof, you know, for for winter. And we’re in situations that are a lot more difficult than what we were for the initial days. I mean, our water, we had water, but it rained brown and we really didn’t know whether we should be using it. We had a daughter who started wetting the bed as a result of= I’m sure she’d love to hear this now as a young adult- but she’s wetting the bed as a result. And I say this because it’s a very normal thing, right? You know, some of the regression that you see as a young six year old. And what do you do with these sheets night after night that have urine in them? And you don’t know if you can wash them in water with poo in them. So, you know, it was one of those. So dealing with, you know, some of those immediate challenges that we really weren’t prepared for and various different parts of the cities were city was, you know, differently impacted from depending on where each of the aftershocks happened. So for this particular initial earthquake, we were lucky enough to have friends who had working power and water in another part of the city and be able to go to them for showers and for washing sheets. And later on we reversed roles, you know, when it happened. But for many people in Christchurch, they did not have access to working toilets. And so they became like it’s purchased every portaloo in the country, what do you call them? I know they’re not portaloos

00;16;50;15 – 00;16;50;29
Rick Hoaglund
Porta potties! Yep!

00;16;51;01 – 00;17;39;00
Jolie Wills
Yes. I’ve got to get my terminology right. So that puts every one of those in the country. They were dotted around the city and I used to feel for older people, pregnant woman, people in the middle of the night who were having to get up and go to the corner porta potty. And so people as there’s some amazing stories, you know, people were using buckets, digging holes in the back yard. And then we created a competition within the city to show us your loo, which, you know, you had all sorts of really fun little denny’s, like we would call them in Australia, but you know, like little shelters that were with fairy lights and all sorts of fun ways ahead of motorbikes that were converted into toilets and all sorts of, again, you know, like if it’s a pretty dire situation, how do we make a little bit better? And sometimes with the community it was through humor, right?

00;17;39;02 – 00;17;47;23
Rick Hoaglund
And how long how long did that take to start happening? I mean, I can’t imagine it happened right away where people were laughing about this.

00;17;47;29 – 00;17;49;00
Jolie Wills
No.

00;17;49;03 – 00;17;52;17
Rick Hoaglund
But did it take a long time or was it relatively quickly?

00;17;52;20 – 00;18;52;20
Jolie Wills
It was relatively quickly. I mean, what you tended to see is you had neighbors who came together, you know, to share food, to run a barbecue, depending on, you know, again, who had what, who needed what to really, you know, compare and help each other. Neighbors that often didn’t know each other before the earthquake. So this amazing pulling together within the community. And then, you know, from that came- I don’t know, part of the coping strategy is often humor, right? So you know you would she had tears you would hear frustrations and challenges and just you had something in common with people. Maybe you had nothing in common before. So this this uniting and amazing social fabric and a community when you know you’re dealing with a challenge and you’re coming together and supporting each other. And we had this funny little book, ‘You Know You’re From Christchurch When…,’ and it had all sorts of, you know, the funny little moments of living in a disaster impacted city that maybe only locals would understand, you know, and the toilet situation being one of them. Yeah.

00;18;52;23 – 00;19;14;10
Rick Hoaglund
So what was the community like before? And then if you can kind of tell me like you started to go like people didn’t know their neighbors. What was it- what you would call kind of a relatively distant community? And then did it become close? And then what is it today? And we’re not really going to jump into today right now. But I just I’m curious to know, how did that involve- how did that evolve?

00;19;14;12 – 00;22;17;17
Jolie Wills
Yeah. And I don’t know. I mean, the community we were living in just outside of Christchurch was a commuter community, you know, driven into your garage, closed the door, you know, And we knew each other to varying degrees if we had kids in the local school. So there were just varying levels of of interest and connection. So we knew our neighbors really well on one side, but the other neighbor not so much, but that neighbor came and helped my husband left- he was in charge of a dairy factory and really needed to go and see what was happening there. And his people were okay, you know, So he left immediately. I stayed, you know, sheltering in place with the kids. Why The ground kept moving. And then eventually, as the sun came up, the neighbor came to knock on our door to see if we were okay, helped us right some of the furniture that I couldn’t, you know. And in the meantime, all my underwear is spelling everywhere, you know, out of my furniture. And and so, you know, we joked about it. You know, we went from not knowing each other to properly knowing more than what we probably needed to know about each other, you know. So, yeah, there was this sense of unity, I think in the initial stage. Beforehand, I don’t know, we were an old English city that I don’t know how to explain this. Probably a little bit staid, a little bit conservative, right? I was if I, if I had to to pick it. Beautiful because it was modeled on England, but there was a lot of which high school did you go to. A little bit of snobbery and a little bit of, you know, there was a set hierarchy in terms of, you know, who had power and place. And then after the earthquakes, what was really interesting is, you know, as you clear all the buildings, I mean, it takes time, but I’m insurance and the demolition phase. But there’s a lot of rubble left or a lot of blank spaces and there’s a lot of, you know, your homes being repaired or damaged. You road outside is damaged. Your workplace is damaged. Like everywhere you look, it’s dusty. It’s it’s horrible. It’s just a reminder of everything in every sphere of your life. And so what you started to see emerge from the community was really interesting things. So they reclaimed some of the spots where the buildings hadn’t gone up yet. And I know in one area there was a disco ball where just on a flat space and underneath it was a washing machine that you put your money in and then the music would play and you had a little dance floor, you know, and there were people crocheting, you know, all sorts of things to put over their shipping containers that were holding up facades of buildings or just ways to bring a bit of color, a bit of joy to an area that, you know, was a constant reminder of of, you know, the tragedy and everything that we were living through and the disruption. And so you see this merging of creativity and quirkiness, you know, communities putting out no libraries. So putting out an old fridge and making a mobile library with people putting books and- and this a creative, you know, emergence from the community, which I think we’ve kept hold of, which has been really interesting as we develop a new city.

00;22;17;20 – 00;22;43;20
Rick Hoaglund
So what would you say to the citizens of the community? And you are one of those and like your families, aone of those. What were the most important things to you that you needed to have? Like when this- when this occurred from a community standard, like you actually talked about libraries, that- that shocked me a little bit. You wouldn’t think about making a library, but it makes sense. You know? What did you find out was important to you that maybe you didn’t know about before?

00;22;43;22 – 00;23;59;16
Jolie Wills
I think it was just things that were quite disorienting and disorientating. So, you know, for example, the places that provide a sense of community disappeared. Those are libraries, schools, restaurants that are gone right, the places that hold meaning for you. I go on. You know, the place you had your first date or like, you know, the restaurant that your kids love for the birthdays or, you know, the lane maps that you navigate by all the things we don’t think about, we take for granted. So you can literally stand on a street that you’ve driven down thousands of times and not know where you are. And so it’s- it’s very disorientating, both- both physically and psychologically. So I don’t know, in terms of what you need, it’s some of those things that hold the routines that keep the fabric of your life together. So it might be school, it might be, you know, a library, it might be, you know, so you start looking for those things that you want to anchor your life to something solid, and it’s not there anymore. So how do you pop some of those needs back into your life in terms of creating some of those routines, but also things that give you joy or bring you together with others? You know, those are- I don’t know how to explain it, but you start looking for ways to recreate those in an innovative way.

00;23;59;18 – 00;24;27;28
Rick Hoaglund
So everyone’s got to be wondering this How are you, your husband and your children doing now? Like it? This had to be emotionally devastating. I don’t even know another word for it, and maybe you can address that, but it’s- I just can’t- I cannot imagine what it would be like to just basically lose a lot and and know that you could potentially lose everything. Some people lost everything. So- So how are your- how’s your family doing?

 

00;24;28;00 – 00;26;01;28
Jolie Wills
Yeah, well, I have to say well now and and I look back to those moments and that was my biggest fear as a mother. You know, it was, what is this going to do to my kids? You know, how how are they going to be impacted? And I had the sense that they had lost the innocence of their childhood. You know, and a few of my assumptions about life got turned upside down, but they needed to be. And actually I’ve probably grown as a result. So I had a friend who grew up in Serbia who see this whole innocence of your childhood thing is- is a very Western-privileged idea, right? So actually there are children everywhere that don’t get to have an innocent childhood. And it’s true here too, Right? So there were some assumptions that got turned upside down. You know, one is I remember thinking, you know, that I could keep my kids safe, which of course, when you look at that under any light, you go and you have no real power and control over so much in their lives. But also after the first one, when I was with my daughter, I remember thinking, well, at least I can make sure that she has, you know, an adult, a responsible adult. So it’s not all on her little shoulders, you know? So there’ll be a teacher, there’ll be a parent, there’ll be a, you know, a babysitter, which, you know, any of those things. And then when the February earthquake hit, the one that claimed 185 lives, it caught the kids between- the bell had just gone to come in from the playground after lunch. So it caught them between the playground in the classroom. And at the time, you know, I said to my daughter, Where were you? And she said, I was in the cloakroom. Do you call it the same? You know, we hang your bags and.

00;26;01;29 – 00;26;04;03
Rick Hoaglund
We do! Our closet room.

00;26;04;06 – 00;27;57;02
Jolie Wills
Yeah. Yeah. And so I said to her, Who was with you thinking who’s going to be an adult? And then, you know, within carry of it. And she said, Ah, no, it’s just me and one little other girl. And I said, Well, what did you do? And she said, I held onto the hooks, mum, and the little girl held onto me and she said, I was scared mum, but I didn’t cry, you know, and that just broke my heart at the time, you know, I just thought, I can’t even make sure that there as an adult she took all that on her little shoulders. And then I just, you know, I think I found it really painful as a parent. But coming out the other side of that, I just realized my job is to build resilient kids, you know, and, you know, not to keep them wrapped up in cotton wool. And they are you ask how they are now. I can definitely see the impacts on all four of us. I can see the imprints, right? Of the earthquake and how it shaped us. But you know, as you were within lots of other events and their life, you know, these sliding door moments. But I can also see, you know, I can see that whole sense of of growth, too. You know, we don’t talk enough about it. We don’t talk enough about that post-traumatic growth that happens. So as a family and as a set of individuals, including my kids, I’ve got a whole lot more confidence in their ability to handle bumps in the road. They come up against other things and think, well, I’ve lived an- half their life in a disaster zone, right? They can tackle this, too. You know, they’ve got much more understanding of what’s involved in dealing with adversity. You know, they they know the resources they need to draw upon to get through. And so I guess they’re much more equipped, no? And I guess to the other thing that I see is there’s a lot more empathy. I’ve got so much more empathy for others going through things in their life. So, you know, I look back and think, yeah, it was a horrific thing to have gone through. And I can I can see the marks on us, but I can also see how they are much better equipped for life and better different human beings as a result.

00;27;57;05 – 00;28;21;18
Rick Hoaglund
So if you were going to give advice to our listeners and let’s say that they live in a disaster zone, it could be wildfires, it could be earthquakes, it could be Tornado alley. I’m going to be honest. I think every where you live, there’s some danger out there that’s natural. You know, there’s something you can’t control. So what would your advice to be like? Is it to prepare kits? Is it to- what is your advice?

00;28;21;20 – 00;30;43;06
Jolie Wills
Yeah, I would say definitely prepare kits. But what we don’t prepare for is the 72 hours after. Right? So the two things that I would say for that is build social capital. It’s a concept we talk about a lot in the emergency management world. And that’s the idea that if you have a closed social network and if you use that network to support you through that long haul, the tough times after disaster and this is oversimplifying social capital, but at its core, right? You have a social network. And if you use that social network for support, those people tend to do better, right? They have better recovery outcomes. So the first thing I say is build a crew, right? And this is important for life anyway, Like have a complete crew of people that you can lean on because this is the number one thing. If you look at what is a best predictor of how people do it is that social connection. So get comfortable with the idea that we all need support sometimes. And I think as humans, we need to be better at that, y’know? We could be a whole lot more comfortable with both giving and receiving support with grace. So, you know, that would be the first thing to be really thinking about. And you know, as part of your your crew of people, they can be all sorts of people, you know, like people who are good with systems in detail. When you’re neck deep in paperwork after disaster are really helpful. You might not think about that immediately. So just if you have a variety of people around you, someone who’s great with a hammer, right? Someone who can be a steady, encouraging listening ear. So I would say you know, the first thing is prioritize building your- your social networks and connections and really practice reaching out and being a support to each other and life’s challenges because when a natural disaster hits, that’s going to stand you in good stead, whether it’s, you know, your neighbors, your friends. But having- having a crew of people who will help you through tough times, that would be my number one. And I think the other thing is to educate yourself about disaster recovery, what’s involved, what’s beyond the first 72 hours. And, you know, one things we’ve created as a as a set of cards called the Cards for Calamity, and this is all about kind of understanding the recovery process. What can you expect? What’s normal, you know, how can you set yourself up for all of that and what have other communities learned? So just kind of learning what is beyond the first 72 hours and what it is that you might need to be equipped for or prepared for as an individual, as a family, as a community?

00;30;43;09 – 00;31;44;05
Rick Hoaglund
And. Jolie, you just gave a big peek into what we’re going to talk about in the next episode, which is great, and that is that this experience that you’ve discussed for the last half hour or so, it has actually caused you to refocus your profession, I will call it. Yes. So- so you are you are in all respects, you are a regarded- I’m going to call you an emergency manager, but you do this with a unique twist and we’re going to talk about that in the next episode. But we’re also going to talk about how at a- at a higher level responders, at a higher level, those that are running the response are going to deal with all of the impacts that happened during a crisis situation like this. And I appreciate it. Thank you so much. I’m looking forward to talking to you in the next episode. So thank you again. And this was fascinating. Thanks very much.

00;31;44;08 – 00;31;45;20
Jolie Wills
Real pleasure, Rick. Thank you.

00;31;45;23 – 00;32;50;28
Rick Hoaglund
It’s not all doom and gloom when it comes to deaths from natural disasters. We are making headway through science, advanced warnings and new building codes. The number of deaths is decreasing. If we look at the total number over the last century, that number is a fraction of what it was. In 1930, the number of deaths per 100,000 people was 170. Now compare that to today, where the number hovers around one death per 100,000. Jolie, thanks for joining us today and sharing with our listeners. Next time OnTopic, we’ll continue with Jolie. We’ll talk about the psychology and the mental health needs of responders and how to build a resilient community. To hear that episode and other episodes of OnTopic with Empathia, visit our web site, www.empathia.com. Follow us on social media @Empathia and subscribe to OnTopic with Empathia to hear new episodes as soon as they go live. I’m Rick Hoaglund – thanks for listening to OnTopic with Empathia!