Episode 50: Stopping the Stigma with Adam Meyers, Part One

00;00;07;10 – 00;02;11;27
Kelly Parbs
According to a study done in Dallas, 26% of police officers screened positive for mental health symptoms, while only 17% of those officers sought mental health services within the past year. Other studies have shown that officers and first responders in general experienced mental health issues at a higher rate than the general public. They experienced depression at nearly double the rate and have higher suicide rates. Further, they report higher rates of post-traumatic stress disorder. Several studies have shown that first responders, especially police officers, do not reach out for mental health support because of the stigma attached to it. I’m your host, Kelly Parbs. I’m a licensed clinical social worker and have dedicated my career to helping people respond to life’s challenges. Today, I will be talking with Officer Adam Meyers. Adam is not only a police chief, but is a certified peer specialist who has experienced severe post-traumatic stress disorder after shooting and killing someone in a retail store. Today, he will tell us his story of suffering in silence to eventually getting the help he needed and still needs today. Adam’s story inspired me and I hope it inspires you too. Thank you for being here, Adam, and for being willing to share your story. I first learned about you by scrolling on Facebook where I came across information about your website, which is called Stop the Threat, Stop the Stigma. This caught my eye because I’m always talking with organizations about how to stop the stigma when it comes to reaching out for mental health support. And after I read your story, I just knew that I had to talk with you and learn from you. So I’m so grateful that you responded to my email and agreed to talk with me today. Thank you so much.

00;02;12;00 – 00;02;32;24
Adam Meyers
Thank you. Kelly. Thanks for having me. And thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk about this. It’s such an important topic and, you being a critical incident responder, you know, you’re like one of us, and we’re all a team, and we all work together. And it’s important to have people like you. So it’s an honor to be here to speak with you about stopping the stigma.

00;02;32;26 – 00;03;05;28
Kelly Parbs
Aww, thank you for saying that. And I really do appreciate that. And it’s true, I actually have provided quite a bit of support to law enforcement, particularly state troopers, over the years. And yeah, and I can say the things that you brave men and women are exposed to are so intense. And I personally am deeply grateful for the services that you provide to communities that you serve. And I offer you really sincere thanks.

00;03;06;00 – 00;03;40;24
Adam Meyers
Thank you. Like I said, it’s important to have responders like you because you’re on scene with us. You’re seeing and experiencing what’s going on. At the same time, we are. And as a law enforcement officer, it’s easy to speak with somebody like you because you get it. I don’t have to tell you how I’m feeling and then explain it. You just genuinely understand. And, it’s really comfortable for me because I can just tell you what’s going on, tell you what I’m feeling, and, and that helps with, you know, healing from a traumatic experience.

00;03;40;26 – 00;04;05;16
Kelly Parbs
Well, thanks for saying that. And that’s a lot about what we’re going to talk about today. Adam, would you mind getting us started by telling us a little bit about yourself before your critical incident? What was your life like? I’m interested in knowing, you know, what was your life like? Did you always want to be a police officer? What was it like before all of, all of this happened?

00;04;05;18 – 00;05;32;24
Adam Meyers
Absolutely. All my life, I’ve wanted to be a police officer. As far back as I can remember, I wanted to be a police officer. I was born and raised in the city of Racine, and one of the main thoroughfares is highway 20, which is also called Washington Avenue. So every time a police car would fly by the house of the lights and sirens going, I would race to the window to look outside. And I would always call that police car and err car. And my mom and dad said the first time that I saw a police officer get out of an err car, I looked at them and I said, “when I grow up, I’m going to be an err car man”. That’s what I wanted to do all my life. So throughout my childhood and adulthood, I did what I thought was necessary to become a police officer. I went to, graduated from high school, graduated from college, went into the Army, active duty Army, five years as a military police officer. And then I had the honor to leave the army and actually become a police officer for the city of Racine, where becoming an err car man all started. So it was great. I absolutely loved being a cop, and, I moved up north while I was married with two young children. My children are 26 and 22 now. Unfortunately, when I moved up north, my marriage fell apart and I got divorced. But I love being a police officer, and that’s what I’ve been working towards all my life. And it’s, it’s really a great job and a great profession to be in.

00;05;32;27 – 00;05;40;02
Kelly Parbs
You’re one of those rare people who have known their whole lives what they want to be when they grow up. You don’t hear that very often.

00;05;40;04 – 00;05;56;08
Adam Meyers
Yeah, I, I knew right away once I saw that police car go by the house with the lights and sirens, it just I was in awe. And that’s something that I worked for all my life. And I became a police officer in March of 2001 for my home town. So that was great.

00;05;56;11 – 00;06;19;10
Kelly Parbs
For your home town, that, that is great. And I love that you remember the words that you used as a little boy, an err car. I have a grandson who says he wants to be a fighter fighter when, when he grows up, it reminded me of that. So then what happened? The story that we’re talking about today, what happened that really changed your life?

00;06;19;12 – 00;07;43;19
Adam Meyers
Well, on April 8th, 2016 at 5:15 p.m., it was a Friday. I was involved in a critical incident. I use deadly force on someone who had armed themselves with a hatchet inside our Walmart store. I was working on a retail theft report at the police department when I was dispatched to our Walmart, and initially it was just an unwanted person at Walmart that was refusing to leave the store with, two of their chaperons. And while I was responding and it progressively became more emergent, dispatch continued to let me know that this person was walking towards the sporting goods department and had removed what they initially said was a knife from the packaging and was being threatening towards customers. This person had walked around the store following customers, threatening customers for about a minute until I arrived. I arrived and made contact with them in the, kind of a lawn and garden, home and beauty makeup department. And when they turned around and faced me, I noticed that they had a hatchet in their hand, and I made multiple verbal commands for them to drop the hatchet to stop. And they refused. And they, you know, came towards me and I ended up shooting them twice, and they ended up dying several hours later.

00;07;43;22 – 00;07;51;08
Kelly Parbs
Wow, Adam, I’m sorry that you had to go through such a, such a traumatic experience.

00;07;51;10 – 00;09;25;01
Adam Meyers
Yeah. I never thought it was going to happen. I mean, I live, worked and played, and that community, shopped at that Walmart all the time, and, you know, this, this community was about 3.5 hours north of my hometown, where I initially became a police officer. And, and the quality of life up there was safer. It was different. And that was one of the main reasons why my ex-wife and I moved up there and, never thought that would have happened up north, but it just goes to show you that incidents like this can happen anywhere. It doesn’t matter if you work at a very, very large, police department or a police department who only has maybe 1 or 2 officers, it can happen anywhere. And when the public calls the police to respond, to help for you to help them in a situation like that, they need the police. And that’s exactly what I did. And I don’t regret it. I don’t, I have never second guessed myself. I know I did the right thing, because I know that if I could have done something differently, I would have done it. But I had no other option but, to shoot that person and, and stop the threat. And it is unfortunate that they died. I mean, it’s something that, that is with me every single day. One way or another I think about it every single day. And this person even had a daughter, six year old daughter at the time. And I had two daughters at the time. So it, it really hit close to home. And, like I said, it’s something I think about every single day.

00;09;25;04 – 00;09;35;13
Kelly Parbs
I can hear in your voice how very seriously you take that. It, it wasn’t just another day at work. It really was something that changed your whole life.

00;09;35;15 – 00;09;38;10
Adam Meyers
Exactly. It really did.

00;09;38;12 – 00;10;00;07
Kelly Parbs
I know that after that happened, things started unraveling for you. Can you share with our listeners the reality of what you went through, what some of the symptoms were, some of your coping strategies, which I know weren’t healthy? What you went through.

00;10;00;09 – 00;13;10;22
Adam Meyers
Yeah. You know, for, for years after my critical incident, I did suffer in silence. My poor coping mechanisms, they were just that, they were poor. They were horrible. I it was all about me, I didn’t care about anybody else. And, you know, I suffered anxiety, depression, stress, PTSD. And one of the ways that I coped is I would consume alcohol. And what I mean by, well, consuming is, putting it lightly, I abused it. What I did was I would make my own cocktails of alcohol. I would buy vodka or whiskey or even wine, and I would, you know, mix sleeping medicine or allergy medicine or even one time I took some of my daughter’s prescribed medicine that had codeine in it and I would make my own cocktail and I would drink the day away. And sometimes after that, pass out and sleep the rest of the day. And I was doing that because I wanted to numb the pain. I wanted the instant feel good, instant escape from reality. And that wasn’t a good combination because I was also on anti-depressants. You know, I’m currently on Lexapro. I wake up every morning, probably like a lot of people, wake up every morning, go to the bathroom, take a multivitamin and then take a Lexapro. And it helps me. Another poor coping strategy I had was casual sex. That was the instant feel good. I would meet people online and it was just all about sex, and that didn’t make things better. I mean, sure, it felt good at the time, but it, it only just increased my depression because then, you know, with that casual sex came worry, stress, anxiety. You know, worrying about if this person would get pregnant, if I would have an STD, you know, those kind of things. And, you know, I remember one time I was literally laying in bed with a woman and I was thinking, what are you doing? This, this just isn’t working for you. You have to knock this off. You got to stop. And eventually I was able to, but I just didn’t like the kind of person that I was becoming. And another, one more thing is, I tried marijuana for the first time in my life. I always prided myself that I never did drugs, not even marijuana. And I know a lot of people don’t think it’s a big deal that I tried marijuana, but it’s a big deal to me because I was just surviving. I was doing whatever I could to survive, to feel better and it just made things worse. I remember I was in the Army and before I went into the Army, you had to go to a place called the MEP station and get tested. And I remember them asking me if I ever did any kind of drugs or even marijuana. And I told them that I hadn’t. And you could tell they didn’t believe me. But, I was like, I’ve never done drugs before. And that’s something that I really prided myself in and I just didn’t care after. I just didn’t care. I wanted to feel good. I was trying to figure out different ways to, to cope that would, that would make me feel, you know, better as soon as possible. And it, it may have worked for a little bit, but it, it didn’t help in the long run.

00;13;10;25 – 00;13;24;11
Kelly Parbs
Sure. That that’s what I was just thinking. Your goal was to feel better, but ultimately you were doing things that you weren’t proud of and and made you feel worse.

00;13;24;14 – 00;15;35;12
Adam Meyers
Exactly. I mean it’s, I’m not proud the way I coped and I am sorry for people that I hurt and I hurt people feelings and, you know, even family and friends. And I’m sorry for that. I people that I worked for and worked with for years, I lied to them and I am sorry. You know, one, there were many times I went to work and I just couldn’t be at work and my chief at the time was very supportive of me. Almost immediately he made a statement to the media, and I actually saw that statement and printed it out and put it in a picture frame and put it on my desk. So when I was having rough days that I knew that my boss supported me, my police chief supported me. And that is so important because you could be dealing with all kinds of stuff in your head. But when you know your chief, when you know your boss supports you, that really means a lot. And I know that he supported me because I would hear him defend me and speak highly of me and support me when he didn’t know I was there. So I knew it wasn’t B.S. What he said to the media was, “I think he believed that he had no other choice. I support him,” and that meant everything to me. But that’s one of the reasons why I am ashamed. And I feel guilt because over time, going into work and saying I can’t be at work, I can’t be at work, I felt like I was running out of excuses, even though if I would have just said I’m just struggling, I’m pretty sure it would have been okay. But I mean, there were times that I, self-harm. I used a wrench to bang up my knee pretty good, just enough to, you know, show some readiness and bruising. And then I went to the E.R. and even lied to the E.R. staff so I could get out of work. And, I remember binge eating and making myself throw up at work in front of officers so they could see me, so they thought I was sick. And it was all, it was all just a scam. And I’m sorry. And I was just surviving. And it’s, it’s embarrassing and shameful now. And I’ve learned from that. And I’m healthier now. But it’s, it was the reality of what I was going through.

00;15;35;14 – 00;19;30;27
Kelly Parbs
And for our listeners who maybe are experiencing some of what you went through, or maybe you love or care about someone who has had a critical incident in their lives or who has experienced some type of trauma. I do want to explain that there are five what we call reaction domains to trauma. And that means, you know, especially as a counselor, these are the kinds of things that we’re going to be looking for. But anyone can look for this. Those five domains of reaction after a trauma are physical, you know, that might be a headache, I can’t sleep, I can’t eat. Emotional, I’m sad, I’m crying, I’m angry all the time. Cognitive is number three. Fuzzy thinking. Like, I just, I can’t seem to make a decision. I can’t recall the details that I normally would have been able to recall. Behavioral. You really highlighted that. Changes in behavior, acting out, drinking too much, you know, changing your behavior in a negative way. And then the fifth one is spiritual. You know, what is the meaning of my life? Why do bad things happen to good people? And while we, you know, certainly can’t excuse some of the behaviors that you talked about, we can normalize that. All of those fell within those five reaction domains that we would expect from someone who has been through a trauma. And so then the question becomes, what do we do about that? And we’ll talk more about that. But one thing that came to mind as you were talking is I have a memory of sitting at a trooper station with a police officer who just wasn’t really ready to talk with me after he had been through a really hard thing, and we ended up sitting there at that state trooper location for probably about two hours, and I would say maybe all but 20 minutes of that, we sat in silence. And later I got some feedback from him, which was a little bit surprising to me, but he said, similar to to what you said about suffering in silence. And, and he said, I have been suffering so long and I, I don’t have words yet to put to that. But you sitting with me for those two hours was exactly what I needed. I needed to not be alone, and I needed to know that another human being on earth cares about what I’m going through. And I think I’ll always remember that. And for him anyway, it was the beginning of him trusting someone in the mental health profession, and it took a long time. It’s not like that day, he said, sure, Kelly, I’ll accept a referral for counseling. I actually left there thinking I kind of failed like this guy isn’t going to accept any help, but he eventually did, and it was because someone sat with him in silence for two hours. In preparing for this, I talked to some of my colleagues about their experiences working with police officers and there definitely was a theme that emerged, and it was that they felt unseen and that they were suffering in silence and that nobody could really understand what they’re going through and that they were lonely. Can you speak to that? Can you respond or relate to that?

00;19;30;29 – 00;22;25;09
Adam Meyers
Well, first of all, thank you for sitting with that trooper for two hours. I mean, that, that means so much. And, you know, throughout the years that I was suffering, I find it hard to believe that, that people didn’t know that I was struggling with certain things. I think a lot of it has to do with they just didn’t know how to approach me. They didn’t know what to do or what to say, so they chose not to. I find it hard to believe that I was that good at hiding it, especially with the people that I had worked with for 14 years or so. It is so important to this, so important to reach out to somebody who is struggling. And there are so many ways nowadays to do that, especially with technology. You can text them, you can email them, you can call them, you can leave a voicemail, something as similar as, “hey, Kelly, I’m thinking about you. I know you’re going through some stuff. I have no idea what you’re going through, but I’m here for you if you need somebody” and it’s good to be there for somebody and, and to listen without listening, just to respond. Many times when I vented, I didn’t want somebody to give me advice. I didn’t want somebody’s opinion. I just needed to speak about what I was going through. And and you were right. There’s a lot of times that I had no idea what those feelings were or how to put those in words, but just getting it out meant a lot to me, and it really helped. And it was therapeutic. And I remember when I first started going to counseling years ago, and I still go every Monday at 5:00 I’m sitting on a couch talking to my therapist, and she’s wonderful. But, you know, I remember after my critical incident when I first went, the very first time, when I was in there venting and talking about what I was going through, it felt great. It was such a release. But then almost the second I left, I thought that was such a waste of time. This person has no idea what I’m going through. They don’t care about me. They don’t know what I’m going through. They’re just doing it because they’re getting paid. And so I would go to counseling, and I would go for a month and then take off for two months and go for three months and take off for six months and get a letter in the mail saying, please come back. We missed you, you missed your appointment. And I’m like, whatever, I don’t care. You don’t get it. And, they did get it and they were being as helpful as they possibly could be at the time. It’s so important to be there for somebody. And even if they don’t tell you that they appreciate it, I know that I did. And when somebody would just text me, you know, “hey, Adam, how’s it going? If you need anything, I’m here. I care about you,” that meant everything. Even if I never responded, because there was a lot of times people would text me or email me and I wouldn’t respond. Kind of had that feeling like, yeah, nobody really cares. They’re just doing this because I have to, you know, I mean.

00;22;25;11 – 00;24;09;25
Kelly Parbs
The importance of support is something that in my job I talk about a whole lot. And for a lot of self-care strategies, it’s not enough just to know it. You actually have to do it. An example of that would be like, I know that I’m supposed to stay hydrated or eat nutritional food. Knowing that doesn’t help me. It’s doing it that helps me, but it’s different. With support. Knowing that we have people who have our back, who care about us, who support us, actually has therapeutic value, even if we don’t reach out and use that support that’s available. Obviously, it’s better if we reach out and use that support that’s available, but I just personally find it so interesting to know that there’s actually therapeutic value just to know your support system. So like you said, when someone texted you and said, “Adam, you know, I’m thinking about you. I care about you,” that helped you. Even if you didn’t reach out to them. And I think there’s just a great lesson in that. For those of us who don’t know what to do or don’t know what to say, especially to a first responder who is going through a hard time, or really anyone who’s going through a hard time. There’s such value in just saying I’m here if you need me. And by the way, that’s called psychological first aid, and I feel like I should maybe do a whole separate podcast on that sometime. But you’re really highlighting the importance of that.

00;24;09;27 – 00;25;26;18
Adam Meyers
And it is so important because, you know, a couple of years ago, I became a certified peer specialist in the state of Wisconsin, and I focused mainly on first responders. But because, you know, speaking of myself as a police officer, we don’t like talking about our feelings. We don’t like admitting that, that we’re having certain issues because it’s perceived, in our profession, to most, that it’s weak. You know, we wear a bulletproof vest when we go to work. Why? Because it protects us. Well, we need to take our vest off and we need to protect our mind and our physical health by asking for help. It’s okay to talk about your mental health. You’re not alone. There are so many people out there that struggle, who have struggled, or that will that understand. And you’re not alone. And it’s difficult to reach out because you know you don’t want to lose your job. And a lot of first responders think that if they reach out, they’re automatically going to get suspended, they’re going to get terminated. And then what am I going to do? I have no idea what else I’m going to do. All I know is law enforcement. All I know is firefighting. All I know is being a paramedic. What am I going to do? I’m going to lose everything. And it’s so important to get help. And there’s so much help out there.

00;25;26;21 – 00;26;26;21
Kelly Parbs
Yet it’s so hard for you to do. And I can attest as a counselor to the fact that first responders, police officers in particular, are hard. It’s hard to get past the vest. It’s hard to get past the armor and build rapport. It takes a long time to build trust with police officers. And it’s, it’s not an easy task. You know, like you said, you would go to a couple of counseling sessions, but then you’d think, you know, he really doesn’t or she really doesn’t care much about me. They’re just doing their job. And it’s hard for us to get past that. And it takes some real diligence. And, you know, maybe you have some suggestions for your fellow police officers on how to help the counselors get past kind of that wall that we encounter with police officers.

00;26;26;24 – 00;28;32;05
Adam Meyers
I think the biggest thing is to do your best to be honest, to be honest with yourself, to be honest with your feelings. I know that when I went to, in 2020, I went to work on New Year’s Eve and I sat down in the squad car and I said to myself, I can’t do this anymore. I’m going to quit. I’m totally done, I quit, I reached out to my sergeant, spoke with him a little bit, and I said, I need you to come with me to the Chief. I quit, I ain’t going to do this no more. And he goes, no, you’re not quitting. You’re not quitting. But he agreed to come with me to talk to the chief, and I told him I was struggling and I’m done. So they gave me a few weeks off. And then in order to go back to work, I had to have a psychological assessment. And I did that. And I remember driving to have that test and I was thinking, you know what? I’m going to lie, I’m going to try to beat this test. I’m going to beat the system. I’m not going to be honest. But then as I got closer and closer, I told myself, you know what, Adam? You have to. That’s the only way that you’re going to get healthy, and the only way that you’re going to get the help you need and get better. So I did I went in there and took the test and it was like seven hours long. It was 9 a.m. to about 4 p.m. and there was no lunch. Yeah, straight through all kinds of testing. And I was, unfit for duty. I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder, PTSD, acute stress with dissociative features. I mean, and when I got this unfit for duty, the psychological testing back, explaining everything, I was reading through it, and I started crying. I’m like, that’s me. That is. That’s me. This explains everything that I’ve been going through throughout the years. And why? Because I was honest. Because I chose not to fight the test. Because I chose not to lie and and not to beat it. And it has helped me. Unfortunately, I, you know, I went on, well, not unfortunately. Fortunately, I was allowed to go on a leave of absence, a 90 day leave of absence. During that 90 day leave of absence, I was even put on a, a safety plan because some of my answers during my testing had suicidal ideations, and.

00;28;32;08 – 00;28;33;25
Kelly Parbs
I was going to ask you about that.

00;28;33;27 – 00;30;36;04
Adam Meyers
Yeah. And then, you know, after 90 days, I met with the Chief and I was given the opportunity to either resign or be terminated. They said they weren’t extending my leave of absence, and I chose not to be, not to resign. It was work related. So I was terminated. And, when we talk about suicidal ideations and, spiritual, when you were talking about spiritual challenges, I remember going to bed praying to God that I would not wake up. And I would say, Dear God, please just fast forward the button, make me better, or just help me not to wake up. I just don’t want to go through this anymore. And when we talk about suicide, that’s the real deal. And that’s why when you know somebody is struggling, it is so important to reach out to them because you can’t come back from suicide. You die by suicide, you’re done. And not only are you done, you affect so many other people. I easily put my gun to my head a dozen times. And I had, a 40 caliber Glock, which, if you’re familiar with that, you remove the magazine and you rack the slide so you can get the round out. And I would put my gun to my head and pull the trigger just so I could hear that metallic click. I never had the intention to kill myself. But I don’t know why I was really doing that. You know, and a lot of times I did that when I was so intoxicated that what if I forgot to remove that round from the chamber, I would have killed myself. And people probably, well they would have found me, and they probably would have thought, you know, Adam was depressed, it’s sad, you know and. But that’s one reason among many that you need to reach out when you know somebody is struggling because having one person that you know that you can talk to and, and vent about is so important and it’s so helpful, I can’t even put it into words. It’s so important to support somebody who is struggling.

00;30;36;07 – 00;31;11;18
Kelly Parbs
Stay tuned for part two of my conversation with Adam Meyers, when Adam will share more about his experience with PTSD and practical tips on how to identify and support someone who is struggling. To hear that episode and other episodes of OnTopic with Empathia, visit our website, www.empathia.com. Follow us on social media @empathia and subscribe to OnTopic with Empathia to hear new episodes as they go live. I’m Kelly Parbs – thanks for listening to OnTopic with Empathia!