Episode 24: Healing Through Forgiveness with The LOVE > hate Project Founder Buck Blodgett, Part One

OT Ep. 24 – Transcript.txt

00;00;09;01 – 00;01;47;00
Kelly Parbs
Is there someone that you need to forgive? The guy who cut you off in traffic? The colleague who doesn’t hold up her share of the workload? Your crabby boss, your parents? Maybe you need to forgive yourself. Forgiveness can be very difficult. If it were easy, we wouldn’t need this podcast. Studies have found that the act of forgiveness can reap huge rewards for your health, lowering the risk of heart attack, improving cholesterol levels and sleep, reducing pain, blood pressure and the levels of anxiety, depression and stress. There’s truly great power in forgiveness. I am your host, Kelly Parbs, a licensed clinical social worker and crisis specialist with Empathia. Today I’ll be talking with Dr. Buck Blodgett. Buck is the author of ‘A Message from Jessie’ and the founder of The Love > Hate Project. He has appeared on Dateline NBC Voice of America, USA Radio and many other TV, radio and social media platforms. He was the loving dad to Jessie for 19 years. Since her death in 2013, he has worked tirelessly to educate, motivate and inspire people to add love and healing to the world through the power of forgiveness. Hello, Buck, and thank you for joining me today.

00;01;47;02 – 00;01;50;16
Buck Blodgett
Good morning, Kelly. Thanks for having me on.

00;01;50;18 – 00;02;03;23
Kelly Parbs
I’m thinking it was around, what, 20 years ago when we met. You were my chiropractor living a pretty normal life. And then it all changed.

00;02;03;25 – 00;02;26;08
Buck Blodgett
We go back a long ways! You not only know what happened in my life and Joy’s, but I watched your kids from the time they were little grow up and leave and marry and have kids of their own. So we go back a long ways. And yes, you journey through me, through my life, journey with me when the bomb went off in our life ten and a half years ago.

00;02;26;10 – 00;02;37;26
Kelly Parbs
Yes, we have quite a history. And I’m so grateful for you joining me today. Maybe you can get us started by telling us what happened.

00;02;37;28 – 00;02;49;17
Buck Blodgett
Sure. I should give a trigger warning first – to some of our listeners, could be triggered by especially by the- the what happened parts of our conversation today.

00;02;49;24 – 00;03;00;02
Kelly Parbs
You’re right, thank you for that. Some of what we’re going to discuss is pretty, very difficult. So thank you, Buck, for for giving us that- that warning.

00;03;00;05 – 00;04;02;04
Buck Blodgett
Yeah. Especially if anybody’s been the victim, survivor, driver of domestic violence or sexual assault or human trafficking, any kind of trauma, really. And even if people haven’t been we experienced a big trauma yet in life, it’s possible you might be triggered by what we’re about to talk about. And triggering for those who don’t know is- is basically when really strong, intense, negative emotions, feelings, thoughts from bad things that happen to us in the past resurface again in the present. And if that happens, talk to somebody. There are experts in every community who know how to help, and Empathia is loaded with experts who know how to help. I know you’d be one of them, Kelly, One of the best I’ve ever seen in helping people who are in the middle of a trauma or have one in their past. So- so talk to somebody. Nobody nobody can heal alone, let alone should.

00;04;02;07 – 00;04;05;26
Kelly Parbs
Thank you. That’s so important. I appreciate you saying that.

00;04;05;28 – 00;07;29;06
Buck Blodgett
So the what happened? It was July 15th, 2013. So ten and a half years ago now almost, we lost our daughter. Me and Joy lost her daughter Jessie, to the violence of a friend. Jessie was 19. She was home, sleeping. It was Monday morning. Dan waited for me to go to work and waited for Joy to go to work, and he was welcome in our home, he was just over the week before. And so he surprised Jessie in her sleep. And he came in. He went upstairs. He- he did not commit a crime of passion, you know, like lost my mind for a few minutes or an hour. He- he executed a long and well planned attack on his friend. And by the way, these guys were- they sat right next to each other at school for four years, first and second chair violins in the orchestra. They were in all the musicals and plays together. They usually got the big roles. They did all the forensics meets, the state solo ensemble competitions. They were in the same- they were in choir together, orchestra together for years, same circle of friends, same theater, arts, performing arts family. So they knew each other very well, they even dated for three months, four years earlier, freshman year of high school. And for the record, this was not a breakup violence. You know, if you can’t- if I can’t have you, nobody can. Dan broke up with Jessie and didn’t want anything to do with her for a year or two. And- and Jessie being Jessie, who valued lifelong relationships and deeper connections, kind of won him back as just a friend, school friend, you know, because they went to school together. Anyway, Dan comes in on that day and surprised Jess in her sleep and he hogtied Jessie and gag-balled her and put tape around the her- her face and head to hold the gag ball. And he raped Jessie. And then he pulled the rope out of his backpack. The D.A. called it- called it his murder kit and put that rope around Jessie’s neck. And I imagine he pulled with all his strength. Big guy, 210lb. young man, 110lb. girl. And- and he held it not only until Jess lost consciousness, but for at least 45 seconds more. Because before he came over to our house that day, he watched what the D.A. called his instructional video. He watched a snuff film and he did exactly what was in it. And- and he watched the life and the light leave Jessie’s eyes. So that’s what happened on July 15, 2013. That’s the bomb that went off in my life. And Joy’s life. What really what I’m on your podcast today for is what comes next.

00;07;29;08 – 00;08;52;11
Kelly Parbs
And that’s talking about forgiveness. It’s hard to even know what to say after hearing that, Buck. It seems almost unimaginable that we’re here to talk about forgiveness in the context of what happened to to your daughter and to your family. Do you mind if I read a quote from your book? So here’s the quote, and the book for our listeners is called ‘A Message from Jessie.’ “Jessie’s murder, the first in over 30 years in our idyllic small town was not only a tragedy, it was also an opportunity. Something in us sensed that an act of such incomprehensible disregard for another human being must be met with an even more incomprehensible forgiveness.” I read that to point out that you not only agreed to talk with me today about forgiveness, I know that you want to talk about it. I know that you have such passion and you want to share your thoughts with the world. And I’m again so grateful that you’re here to do that with me. So let’s start with with the basics. What is forgiveness?

00;08;52;14 – 00;09;58;14
Buck Blodgett
Wow. We’re just going to jump right in! And first of all, I have to- I just have to backpedal a second and say this really is an opportunity for me. And I I don’t know what happened to me, Kelly. You know, obviously, we didn’t ask for this and we’d give it all back to have Jess back. But the- and I feel like I’m must sound crazy to people, especially people who have who are hearing this for the first time. But the blessings that have come out of the tragedy? And yes, it was incredibly dark and yes, it still hurts and it will till the day I die. But the blessings that have come too just blew me away. So I not only want to talk about this, like I can’t help myself. I can’t! This one-time atheist who isn’t anymore feels a powerful calling. I feel like I’m a little canoe in the Mississippi River. Like I can’t even help which way we’re going here. And yet I’m on the best- How crazy is that? I’m on an amazing ride.

00;09;58;16 – 00;10;28;03
Kelly Parbs
It’s not! It’s just- it’s not crazy. And I do a lot of education and teaching on the topic of resilience. And one thing that resilient people do is they find the positives even in very negative or difficult situations. And here, that’s what I hear you doing right now, is saying, of course we wish this wouldn’t have happened, but it did and from it have been blessings.

00;10;28;06 – 00;11;36;25
Buck Blodgett
And yeah, so now that it did happen, now what? One thing that clicked in my brain, I believe, on day one. In fact, I know because Joy and I sat on the couch between detective interviews after I just soon after I drove home, after I got the phone call that every parent fears. And she turned to me and said some brilliant things. And- and one time I turned to her and I said, Honey, we can’t let- We can’t get bitter. This could- this could crush us, you know, And we it’d be so easy to just walk off the abyss of the darkness. But you know what clicked in my brain really early on was what a patient said to me. It sounds like something you would have said to me when we first met 20 years ago. I believe it was somebody else. But tell me if it was you, because it sounds so Kelly! What they said was, nobody has the power to irritate me. This patient comes in really stressed out one day and they lay down and like every patient, they lay down on the table and they not only want to get adjusted, but they start talking. And they said, nobody has the power to irritate me unless I give it to them and I don’t.

00;11;36;27 – 00;11;42;17
Kelly Parbs
Excellent! I don’t know who said that either, if it was me or not. But I love it!

00;11;42;19 – 00;12;12;25
Buck Blodgett
Yeah. And it it for me it transferred to this like I will never give Dan- Dan did the damage he could do on July 15th, 2013. He doesn’t get to wreck my life every day after. I refuse to give him the power to harm my joy, to harm my peace, and to harm my purpose in life. In fact, he’s fueled all three of those things and he’s forgiven. So anyway, but what was your question, Kelly?

00;12;12;27 – 00;12;23;22
Kelly Parbs
Well, what is forgiveness really is just trying to build on the basics. We’re talking about forgiveness today. So I thought it might be a good idea to hear how- how you would define it.

00;12;23;25 – 00;12;54;07
Buck Blodgett
I think that there’s four distinctions that help us tease out exactly what forgiveness is and what it isn’t. And they’re really important because I think they’re- they’re kind of they’re not distinct for most people who haven’t really looked into forgiveness and they’re confused and they cause trouble. They get in the way. They make us either not inspired to forgive or feeling like we can’t.

00;12;54;09 – 00;13;01;14
Kelly Parbs
So kind of the barriers, it sounds like, yeah, what the barriers to forgiveness are.

00;13;01;16 – 00;15;49;29
Buck Blodgett
So let’s hit those four things. First before I say what what I think are four key distinctions, let me just share what the Mayo Clinic says. The Mayo Clinic, by the way, what’s one of the leading hospitals in the world, one of the leading inpatient care health care facility is on the planet – What’s the Mayo Clinic doing having material of forgiveness? Well, they know, obviously, that it’s really important. And health and wellness. So what they say is forgiveness means different things to different people. But in general, it involves an intentional decision to let go of resentment and anger. It’s that simple. And by their definition, it doesn’t have anything to do with the other party. It just involves one’s own intentional decision to let go of anger and resentments. And it’s now we love as greater than hate, have our own definition. It’s one of our values. And here’s how we’ve teased out our value. We choose to live with open hearts, with releasing the past and believing the best in ourselves and others. So those are a couple possible definitions of forgiveness for me. I think what best defines it is what it isn’t. And the number one thing by far, somebody gets nothing else out of this podcast. For me, it’s this that forgiveness is not releasing anybody from accountability. It’s not pardoning anything. It’s not excusing anything. It’s not condoning anything. I will never release Dan from accountability for what he did to Jessie that day, nor I hope, do I ever release myself from accountability for every thought I ever have, every word that ever comes out of me and impacts someone else. And same with my actions. Forgiveness and accountability are to distinct things. There are two completely different issues. So if it’s not pardoning, if it’s not releasing anybody from accountability, like I can still- like accountability, yes. Punishment when appropriate as necessary. Yes. Forgiveness. Yes, we can do both. I can do both. Well, So what is it then? It’s just a release from, as the Mayo Clinic says, resentment and anger and hate and blame and the judgment of others and condemnation and maybe anxiety and fear and all of those things that harm us. That’s all it is. It’s not excusing or pardoning. It’s just releasing oneself and what’s in us, what get- what we internalize in us that can be so harmful to ourselves and the people around us.

00;15;50;01 – 00;16;01;17
Kelly Parbs
So forgiveness can run parallel with holding someone accountable. I think that’s a very important distinction. Both can happen.

00;16;01;17 – 00;16;29;01
Buck Blodgett
Like that’s really good right there. Like if forgiveness is love is a- is one of the highest expressions of love? Well isn’t holding people accountable a high expression of love also? Like every parent knows that you know, sometimes what’s best for our kid is to have them apologize for what they did or to- to go and fix what they did to make it right. Accountability is an expression of love, too. So just like forgiveness, they need both. We need both.

00;16;29;04 – 00;17;05;27
Kelly Parbs
I often think about forgiveness in terms of it being a gift to the person who hurt us. And that’s true. And as someone who’s oftentimes been in need of forgiveness myself, I know how important that gift is. But we may not always want to give someone that gift. We might not be in that space yet to want to gift someone with forgiveness, but we should do it anyway. And I’d like you to tell us why. Why should we forgive people?

00;17;05;29 – 00;19;51;00
Buck Blodgett
Because it’s good for us and it’s good for them and it’s good for our communities and the planet. And there’s a lot in that. Let’s tease that out. But before we tease that out, let me go back because the second of the four distinctions around forgiveness that I think define it, clarify it, and help us choose it and execute it effectively for our own good, for everybody else’s good. The second one is not to be disagreeable, but for me, forgiveness is not a should. Like I learned my lesson on this at a conference nine years ago when I was just getting started with this and I realized I was talking to domestic violence advocates in the audience who are way more expert in this field than me. And I was telling the story of just transformative, life changing forgiveness that I was experiencing, but I wasn’t aware of what all of them were going through. And some of them had experienced horrible trauma and some of them were were moved and empowered and freed up by this whole forgiveness story I was telling. And some of them didn’t like it at all. They were angry with it. I learned that day forgiveness is not a should. Like, who am I to tell people they should forgive? Like all of our listeners right now, they they know my trauma, at least to the extent that I told the story. But I don’t know theirs. We don’t know theirs. We don’t know what people are going through. And it’s so personal. And sometimes the traumas are so intense and big and life changing. It’s really an individual thing. So I hope, I hope, I hope, nobody listening would construe my message to mean that I’m saying that you should forgive. Forgiveness isn’t a should. It’s just an invitation. It’s not the right thing to do. It’s not the right thing to do. It’s just an invitation. It’s one possible response out of 100. Like I could respond to my trauma with hate and anger and vengeance or fear or anxiety or depression. And I probably have in all those ways at some time. But- but I can also respond with forgiveness, which, you know, it’s just one possible response. Nobody’s saying you should. But what we are seeing is it’s a- it’s a beautiful response that will change everything for you. It’ll make you physically healthier, mentally healthy or spiritually healthier. And not just you, but all the people around you. So it’s not a- it’s not pardoning anything, and it’s not a should. It’s just releasing anger and resentment. It’s just one possible thing, just an invitation.

00;19;51;03 – 00;19;51;20
Kelly Parbs
Sure! I love that.

00;19;51;21 – 00;19;53;10
Buck Blodgett
And you know, I’m talking too much!

00;19;53;10 – 00;20;17;00
Kelly Parbs
No, no, you’re not talking too much. I appreciate your insight. And- Buck, you said there are four distinctions around forgiveness that you thought were very important. We talked about the first one being- it’s not releasing a person from accountability, and the second one being it’s not a should. What are the other two?

00;20;17;02 – 00;24;00;02
Buck Blodgett
So the third one is it’s not deserved. And by the way Kelly, those the first two are really important in that that’s where people get stuck with forgiveness. Those are the things thinking that, oh I can’t forgive them, they’re there- We can’t let them off the hook for that. That’s where people get stuck with it and think it would be disloyal and wrong to forgive. It’s not. It’s not really. It’s just releasing anger, resentment. Same thing with a should. It’s too personal to tell anybody they should, but it’s too beautiful and empowering and freeing to not invite people to do it. So the third one is it’s not deserved. Like Dan doesn’t deserve forgiveness. It’s ten and a half years later. He’s never even admitted yet. He hasn’t even told the truth yet. He’s still appealing, as far as we know. You know, despite a mountain of physical and DNA evidence like we have the- all the ligatures and they perfectly match the marks on Jesse and we have blood stains on bed sheets and tape and hair and fingernail scrapings and semen and DNA and all that from two people and two people only. There’s no doubt. But he’s still pretending he’s lying. He doesn’t deserve forgiveness, let alone ever apologized to Joy for stealing her only child or or even showing an actual ounce of genuine remorse for what he put Jesse through for her. He doesn’t deserve forgiveness. Why should I free? Well, because forgiveness isn’t deserved. And my forgiveness for him isn’t dependent on anything that he says or fails to say or does or fails to do. Like forgiveness for me, Kelly, forgiveness is from a higher place. And I don’t mean to preach now, but for me it’s like- it’s like pure and like, and for those who have a certain faith, like I do that I can only talk about my faith because I don’t know about other different faiths so much. But in my Christian faith, I don’t deserve forgiveness either. You know, I’ve never raped anybody and never will. I’ve never murdered anybody. I never will. But I’ve hurt people with my words regularly and usually I don’t even know it. And all of us have all of our listeners have hurt other people in their lives, have been hurt by other people’s words. We don’t deserve forgiveness. It’s not deserved. It’s just a gift, freely given with no conditions. And I don’t need to forgive Dan, I don’t have to forgive Dan, but I want to because, because it’s missing in the world. I look out into the world and see it’s not present and we need more of it. And if not me, who? If not our listeners, who? So it’s forgiveness is not deserved. It’s just an undeserved gift and an amazing one. And it’s mine to choose to withhold or guess. It doesn’t depend on Dan, what he’s done or hasn’t done. Just as my forgiveness from a higher place is given to me without conditions also, it doesn’t depend on what I do or not do. It’s just given to me. And finally, number four, forgiveness isn’t a feeling. It’s another place where people get tripped up. It’s amazing that you forgave your daughter’s killer, but I could never do that. And why do I hear that all the time? Why do people think they can’t? Because they don’t feel it. Forgiveness is not a feeling. It’s a commitment. So in the same way that I-

00;23;56;14 – 00;23;59;14
Kelly Parbs
It’s a choice! It’s a cognitive choice.

00;24;00;04 – 00;25;58;15
Buck Blodgett
Yes. Yes. You know, I was just at Marian University in Fund du Lac a couple days ago, and we did a forgiveness course up there. And those guys, they’re all in college. They’re committed to getting a college degree. Do you think they feel like studying every day? No, but they do it anyways because of the commitment that they have. Their commitment is more, is stronger than they’re feeling. You know, I used to love to run, but I often hated going out the door and starting. But my commitment to being a runner and to my training program and to running a marathon and training for it was bigger than how I felt. It had me not want to go out the door, so I did it anyways. And then a funny thing happens. Your feeling tends to fall in line with your more powerful commitment. I never regretted it once I got out the door. Same with marriage. The romance period doesn’t last forever. It’s this intense feeling of love in the beginning of it all. But it wears off. Or everybody’s been married a long time. They know that. And so then we’re left with. Or do we not love each other anymore? Or are we left to discover a more profound and deeper and powerful way to live, living as love, from commitment, from a feeling. So forgiveness too? It’s not a feeling. And when I wake up out of a dream of what they did to Jessie, and I’m not feeling it doesn’t invalidate my commitment to be a forgiving person and to forgive him. And when I’m angry at him because we get another notice in the mail that he’s appealing again, but a different thing doesn’t. And my reaction is upset and whatever doesn’t invalidate my commitment to forgive him. All of that can live inside of my forgiveness, my commitment. So it’s not pardoning anybody. It’s not a should. It’s not deserve and it’s not a feeling. It’s just a commitment. It’s just a free gift. It’s just one possibility. And it’s just releasing anger and hate.

00;25;58;17 – 00;27;04;22
Kelly Parbs
I love how empowering that is. It’s- it’s not a should. No one is telling you what you should do. But we are discussing the different ways that you might respond to- to a trauma or someone doing something to you that wasn’t right. It’s empowering to say you have options in how you might respond. And one of the things that you touched on Buck is something called Trauma Informed Care, which means, like you said, we don’t know people’s journey, we don’t know what they’ve walked through. And when people respond in a way that doesn’t seem congruent with the situation or just doesn’t make sense to us, why is that person responding the way that they are? It’s because we don’t know the journey that they’re walking through and maybe they just need to be treated with kindness, even though they’re not acting in a way that seems to deserve kindness and- and forgiveness is one of those reactions that we can give people.

00;27;04;25 – 00;27;59;12
Buck Blodgett
That’s such a great point, Kelliy, because you could also have five people in a group trauma experience, and all five of them might have different reactions to their trauma that they participated in or- or witnessed or whatever, because of- they’re five different people. They have five different histories. They’ve got five different sets of DNA. So in the same way that five different people can see a crime and give different testimonies to police, So can we also react differently to everything? And if we’re going to most empower people and offer them freedom and wisdom and peace and joy after trauma, then we got to meet them where they’re at and not tell them how they should react, but just offer them new possibilities and tell them why. So you asked a little while ago about why forgive?

00;27;59;15 – 00;28;06;03
Kelly Parbs
Sure! Absolutely! Why? What are the benefits of forgiving? Why forgive?

00;28;06;05 – 00;30;37;09
Buck Blodgett
Well first, let me share what the Mayo Clinic says. First, they say forgiveness can lead you down the path of physical, emotional and spiritual well-being. That covers all facets of being human. But they left out mental, but I’m sure they mean not to. Mental health, right? It’s that they’re going to say that minute. So they’ve got this list of eight things that forgiveness does. And it number one is healthier relationships. I mean, let’s stop right there. If that was the only thing like for people who are listening right now, think of your relationships. You know, has your relationship with your mom or your spouse or your dad or your lifelong friends or your coworkers, how are your relationships? And maybe most of them are really great, or maybe some of them are really bad. Well, in any case, according to the Mayo Clinic, you want better relationships? Forgiveness. Forgiveness is at the core. It’s at the center of high quality relationships. Being able to love somebody exactly the way they are with all of our imperfections. So healthier – you want healthy relationships? Practice forgiveness. But let’s go further down their list at the Mayo Clinic of what Forgiveness can lead to low blood- lower blood pressure, stronger immune system, improved heart health. Okay, Well, you know, I was a chiropractor for 30 years. And being one I know the top two killers in our country for all of those 30 years and in all countries in the modern world, top two killers, heart disease, cancer, forgiveness can help with those. Well, it can lower your blood pressure, improve your heart health. It a stronger immune system. The immune system for those who aren’t health care providers is the system of our bodies that fights cancer. You know, the stronger your immune system, the lower your risk of cancer. In fact, I don’t want to go too deep here and get us off purpose, but as a chiropractor, I can’t help this leaking out a little bit. Every one of us has cured cancer every day that we’ve been alive. We all have a handful of cells that go cancerous every day, and that means they lose their normal check mechanism and reproducing and they start to reproduce like out of control and form masses. That’s what cancer is. And forgiveness can help with that.

00;30;37;13 – 00;30;38;01
Kelly Parbs
Wow!

00;30;38;03 – 00;30;43;27
Buck Blodgett
Believe it or not, I mean, that’s unbelievable to me, but it improves your own strength.

00;30;43;28 – 00;30;51;04
Kelly Parbs
Buck that’s not off topic at all! I so appreciate you sharing that with us. And that’s something I had never heard!

00;30;51;06 – 00;31;40;03
Buck Blodgett
How crazy is that? So here’s here’s for reasons. How about some more less anxiety and stress and hostility, fewer symptoms of depression. The other thing, Kelly, I saw as a chiropractor for 30 years is, you know, we have new patients and, you know, the paperwork when you go to the doctor’s office and we got intake forms and at one piece of the intake form is the 50 or 60 most common human conditions, you know, heart disease, cancer, anxiety, depression, diabetes, blah, blah, blah, on and on and on. And people have to check the box of the things they have or the things they’ve had. Top two by far Every year of my 30 years as a chiropractor, it’s probably getting worse, not better. The top two boxes that people check, anxiety and depression.

00;31;40;05 – 00;31;55;10
Kelly Parbs
I knew you were going to say that! I suppose that’s where our careers overlap a bit. I have not seen more anxiety or depression in the 35 years I have been practicing as I’ve seen in the last few years.

00;31;55;12 – 00;32;32;23
Buck Blodgett
And same thing with domestic violence. Increased isolation, increased stress. Yeah, anxiety, depression. Where does it come from? Trauma. Bad things that happened to us are because now we’re worried about them happening again or what other bad things could happen to us in the future. Forgiveness, releasing resentments, anger, hate, whatnot, and also release anxiety and depression and transform it. Oh, improve self esteem! Those are eight things that, according to the Mayo Clinic, that if one practices forgiveness, that will be the fruit from the practice.

00;32;32;25 – 00;34;01;18
Kelly Parbs
Well, if that isn’t motivation, I don’t know what is. I’m struck by that list, Buck! As you know, for a job I do critical incident response, which means I go onsite or I meet with people who have gone through a very difficult situation and I teach them the areas where they are most likely to see the impact of the tragedy that they experience. And I call them the five domains of reaction. And those are physical. You know, I can’t sleep cognitive. I can’t think my brain is foggy, emotional. I’m crying all the time. Behavioral. I’m crabby with my spouse. I’m hard to live with. I’m drinking too much. And then the fifth is spiritual. What’s the meaning of my life? Why do bad things happen to good people? And what I hear you saying is that by forgiving, we are setting ourselves up to be healthier in all of those areas and therefore better equipped to deal not only with the stressors of everyday life, but also with any future trauma or tragedy that we might have to endure. So again, forgiveness is definitely not only for the person who hurt us, but very much for our own physical and mental health.

00;34;01;20 – 00;37;26;22
Buck Blodgett
Kelly, I don’t know how you do what you do. I don’t know how you do it. You know, I’ve had to go through this one thing. Most people have one or a handful of big traumas in their life, and you deal with other people’s traumas and experience secondary trauma a daily basis for 30 years. That’s just amazing. Thank God for people like you. And that material sounds really, really good and so important. And I would add to it that not only does forgiveness, practicing it and understanding the impacts of trauma and those five domains which are really great physical, emotional, mental, behavioral and spiritual, it’s so, you know, knowledge is power, isn’t it? It’s even little distinctions can make all the difference. Not only is it is forgiveness so good for us, but it’s also good for those altruistic people listening to us who want to make a difference in the world, who want their lives to forward humanity, who who want who care about the planet and its people. Forgiveness is good not only for you, it’s good for everybody whose life intersects yours. And it’s really even on a bigger picture, it’s good for our communities and our whole world. There’s so much more to say about this, but here’s one little tiny example. I worked in the prisons and in the state prison system in Wisconsin, one of the things I know is because of that is that 90% of our inmates will be out within four years. And so they already are out there in our communities right now. And then more will be in the future when they get out, too. And many of them have violent offenses. And even more of the you know, and some have sex offender offenses and even more have drug and alcohol related offenses, which are- if they haven’t committed violence yet and they don’t handle the drug or alcohol problem, you know, those things are married violence and drugs and alcohol. So if we’re not engaging them, you know, forgiveness is not only good for us, but it’s also good for them. And we’ll talk about why in a second. But if we don’t engage them in their own transformation, if we don’t inspire them to to want to do better and to want to if we don’t help them understand who they’re meant to be and who they’ve been in the past, if we don’t give them a way and a purpose and then tools and resources to to facilitate change and transformation, we’re kidding ourselves. We’re- I’m lying to myself that I’m out to change the world and I’m deluding myself if I think that we can actually impact violence on the planet. We have to engage people who are committing and there’s nothing more engaging for them. I’ve seen the power of it in the prison system. There’s nothing that even compares to engaging them like forgiveness does. I mean, I’ve seen the hardened, hardened asked the toughest grown men like bad guys, like violent grown men just start bawling like babies when you tell them they’re forgiven.

00;37;26;22 – 00;37;27;16
Kelly Parbs
Again, a gift, right?

00;37;27;16 – 00;37;29;19
Buck Blodgett
Well, that’s great power for us and others.

00;37;29;21 – 00;38;09;10
Kelly Parbs
Absolutely. We will continue our conversation with Dr. Buck Blodgett in our next episode when he will tell us about his forgiveness journey and give us very practical tips on exactly how to forgive. To hear that episode and other episodes of OnTopic with Empathia, visit our website, www.Empathia.com. Follow us on social media @Empathia, and subscribe to OnTopic with Empathia to hear new episodes as soon as they go live. I’m Kelly Parbs – Thanks for listening to OnTopic with Empathia!